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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just watched the Goodwood video again, something stuck with me. In the interview Fisker says the Ultra/Extreme will have not just have a large battery but the largest battery in its class to get the 350 mile range. Vehicles in this segment with their largest packs are:

Ionic 5/EV6 - 77 kWh
Mach-E - 91 kWh
Lyric - 100 kWh
Model Y - 82 kWh
ID4 - 82 kWh

So if Fisker isn't yanking our chains and the Ocean has the largest, can we expect over 100 kWh?

 

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I had been assuming 100 kWh battery (which would put efficiency at 286 watts/mile), Hopefully they will keep it close to that.
 

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I'm guessing since the Ocean is smaller and lighter than the Lyriq it will not need such a big battery pack. The Ocean is similar size to the Model Y and Mach-E. I'm betting the weight will be between the Model Y (3900-4500 lbs) and the Mach-E (4400-4900 lbs). I suppose for the large pack it will be at least 90 kWh to hit the 350 EPA range. We just don't know the vehicle weight, drivetrain efficiency, etc.
 
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What do we consider to be good efficiency for a 4,000 pound SUV?
I hope the Fisker Ocean will weigh from 4200 lbs - 4600 lbs.
As for battery size, I'm thinking 86 KWh- 88 KWh
 

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What do we consider to be good efficiency for a 4,000 pound SUV?
Here are some from fueleconomy.org:

Car Automotive parking light Tire Land vehicle Wheel


Tesla's efficiency is suspect; anything in the low 30's kWh/100 miles (300 watts/mile) would be good. On our ID.4, we have been achieving 3.1 miles/kWh or 323watts/mile. 3 miles per kWh would be a nice number. (My Model 3 lifetime is sub 250 watt/mile.)
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
From what I gather legacy manufacturers are tending to be more conservative on their range estimates. Tesla is less conservative. But not having owned any I cannot say for sure. I saw a 70mph test of the RWD 90kWh mach e that got 3.7 miles per kwh in fairly decent conditions.
 

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The "Tesla is less conservative" is due to their choice of EPA testing protocol (5 cycle vs 1 cycle). EPA should just choose one testing procedure and make things more comparable. They really need to replace it with something designed for EVs. Supposedly SAE J1634 should help.
 
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The "Tesla is less conservative" is due to their choice of EPA testing protocol (5 cycle vs 1 cycle). EPA should just choose one testing procedure and make things more comparable. They really need to replace it with something designed for EVs. Supposedly SEA J1634 should help.
I always thought they should just use WLTP × 90%; considering it is a "Worldwide Harmonised" test.
 

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I am doing my estimate this way:
Step 1 - Model Y WLTP 331 miles, Fisker LTP 391 miles, Fisker = 18% more than Y
Step 2 - Model Y 70mph range test 276 miles * 1.18 = Fisker 70 mph range 326.
Step 3 - Minus 6% for 22" tires (grumble) = 307 miles @ 70 mph.
 

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BTW, @MTN Ranger and @TT97 what does it say that all of us were early Model 3 buyers and all of us are abandoning the Tesla brand? Not a good sign for the big T. (BTW, I love my Model 3, but want an SUV / hatch and the Tesla pricing / performance combination is no longer compelling to me. Plus, I am not in love with the Y's design.)
 

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BTW, @MTN Ranger and @TT97 what does it say that all of us were early Model 3 buyers and all of us are abandoning the Tesla brand? Not a good sign for the big T. (BTW, I love my Model 3, but want an SUV / hatch and the Tesla pricing / performance combination is no longer compelling to me. Plus, I am not in love with the Y's design.)
In all fairness, I have always leased every other car I have owned except for one. Every three year lease I have had, I have always had the itch to change cars before the lease is up; the car I did own, I ended up selling after two years. 4 years for me for a car is a record. I still really like the 3, except for "3" issues - (1) there are way too many Teslas in SoCal, when I got mine, there were very few in circulation (VIN #20,7xx), now there are more Teslas than Priuses (Prii?); (2) even after 4 years, I still can't get over the lack of binnacle/information dash; and (3) I really have issues with their CEO.

I am really going to miss the supercharger network (especially as I was inadvertently given free unlimited supercharging). I know they say they will open up the Supercharger to other EVs but please refer to #3 above on my trust in the statement.
 

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In all fairness, I have always leased every other car I have owned except for one. Every three year lease I have had, I have always had the itch to change cars before the lease is up; the car I did own, I ended up selling after two years. 4 years for me for a car is a record. I still really like the 3, except for "3" issues - (1) there are way too many Teslas in SoCal, when I got mine, there were very few in circulation (VIN #20,7xx), now there are more Teslas than Priuses (Prii?); (2) even after 4 years, I still can't get over the lack of binnacle/information dash; and (3) I really have issues with their CEO.

I am really going to miss the supercharger network (especially as I was inadvertently given free unlimited supercharging). I know they say they will open up the Supercharger to other EVs but please refer to #3 above on my trust in the statement.
I am with you on the itch to change vehicles. I get it every 4-5 years. I am very anxious about the SC network. There are two trips I took this year that I know are not currently possible in an Ocean. Hoping by next spring... but yikes!
 

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BTW, @MTN Ranger and @TT97 what does it say that all of us were early Model 3 buyers and all of us are abandoning the Tesla brand? Not a good sign for the big T. (BTW, I love my Model 3, but want an SUV / hatch and the Tesla pricing / performance combination is no longer compelling to me. Plus, I am not in love with the Y's design.)
Tesla makes good cars but it‘s the experience that lets them down unfortunately. The non-existent quality control and poor service experience is what kill’s them. I have never had a new car that had a leaking rear hatch. I also never had a company tell me to continue to keep driving it and have it continue to leak inside the car whileI wait for the necessary parts.

They are leagues ahead of anyone else in terms of software, though.

 

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Tesla makes good cars but it‘s the experience that lets them down unfortunately. The non-existent quality control and poor service experience is what kill’s them. I have never had a new car that had a leaking rear hatch. I also never had a company tell me to continue to keep driving it and have it continue to leak inside the car whileI wait for the necessary parts.

They are leagues ahead of anyone else in terms of software, though.

Yes, the software is the biggest worry I have about the Ocean. The Android OS gives me the heebee jeebees
 
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BTW, @MTN Ranger and @TT97 what does it say that all of us were early Model 3 buyers and all of us are abandoning the Tesla brand? Not a good sign for the big T. (BTW, I love my Model 3, but want an SUV / hatch and the Tesla pricing / performance combination is no longer compelling to me. Plus, I am not in love with the Y's design.)
Since my first new car in '93, I've always bought cars based on the model and not the manufacturer. The Model 3 was the best EV when I purchased it in 2018. Nothing ties me to Tesla currently.

(cars companies I owned in order: Honda, Mercedes, BMW, Land Rover, Lexus, Toyota, Saturn, Chevrolet, Nissan, Mini, Volvo, Tesla)
 

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Yes, the software is the biggest worry I have about the Ocean. The Android OS gives me the heebee jeebees
Why does the Android Automotive OS worry you? For me it is the opposite. I'd been very worried if Fisker had decided to create their own OS. It is incredibly difficult, time consuming and costly. Google has many years of experience of making software platforms, so you'd have a good, solid base where you could create your own apps on top. Additionally it is cheaper and easier for Fisker to get hold of talented engineers as they'd have access to the millions of Android engineers already out there. I'm an iOS developer, however, if I had been an Android developer I'd definitely jump at the chance to develop the infotainment system on the Fisker Ocean. It'd be super cool.
 

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Why does the Android Automotive OS worry you? For me it is the opposite. I'd been very worried if Fisker had decided to create their own OS. It is incredibly difficult, time consuming and costly. Google has many years of experience of making software platforms, so you'd have a good, solid base where you could create your own apps on top. Additionally it is cheaper and easier for Fisker to get hold of talented engineers as they'd have access to the millions of Android engineers already out there. I'm an iOS developer, however, if I had been an Android developer I'd definitely jump at the chance to develop the infotainment system on the Fisker Ocean. It'd be super cool.
Not my area of expertise and so you have a far, far better understanding that I do and perhaps you can put my fears to rest! AFAIK it is only the Geely vehicles (Volvo & Polestar) that have been running this for any length of time and the feedback re AAOS on Volvo and Polestar on their forums has been mediocre (being generous) so that gives me pause. The app integration is poor, the updates are slow to come, and it is glitchy. (Not my opinion, just my reading of the forums which, btw, is the most instructive real review of any vehicle IMO).

My bigger concern is the way Google tends to handle its OS systems more broadly. A vehicle system needs to last 20 years (the typical new car life is about 22 years excluding losses due to accidents). To be effective, an in-car OS needs to be updated with great care to ensure maximum compatibility with previous model hardware. In an EV, the infotainment system is a power hog so it also needs to be carefully implemented to manage consumption. AAOS is a generic system not designed around specific hardware and there is little incentive for Google to ensure all future iterations are optimized as much as possible for earlier hardware or to keep older versions up-to-date. The phone android software track record is not encouraging on this front. (And then there is the whole business of giving a bunch more of your life data to Google issue, but I will skip the tinfoil hat stuff!)

I know that Ford is moving to AAOS beginning in 2023 and GMC is using it in the Hummer EV. So perhaps it will improve. But as I said, it makes me anxious that as a result of using AAOS Fisker will not be able to roll out updates in a timely manner or be responsive to the inevitable problems and feature gaps that owners find. But I very much welcome correction if my impressions are misinformed.
 

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Not my area of expertise and so you have a far, far better understanding that I do and perhaps you can put my fears to rest! AFAIK it is only the Geely vehicles (Volvo & Polestar) that have been running this for any length of time and the feedback re AAOS on Volvo and Polestar on their forums has been mediocre (being generous) so that gives me pause. The app integration is poor, the updates are slow to come, and it is glitchy. (Not my opinion, just my reading of the forums which, btw, is the most instructive real review of any vehicle IMO).

My bigger concern is the way Google tends to handle its OS systems more broadly. A vehicle system needs to last 20 years (the typical new car life is about 22 years excluding losses due to accidents). To be effective, an in-car OS needs to be updated with great care to ensure maximum compatibility with previous model hardware. In an EV, the infotainment system is a power hog so it also needs to be carefully implemented to manage consumption. AAOS is a generic system not designed around specific hardware and there is little incentive for Google to ensure all future iterations are optimized as much as possible for earlier hardware or to keep older versions up-to-date. The phone android software track record is not encouraging on this front. (And then there is the whole business of giving a bunch more of your life data to Google issue, but I will skip the tinfoil hat stuff!)

I know that Ford is moving to AAOS beginning in 2023 and GMC is using it in the Hummer EV. So perhaps it will improve. But as I said, it makes me anxious that as a result of using AAOS Fisker will not be able to roll out updates in a timely manner or be responsive to the inevitable problems and feature gaps that owners find. But I very much welcome correction if my impressions are misinformed.
BMW is also moving to AAOS starting in 2023. Looks like in-house infotainment development might be going the way of the do-do.
 
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