[TT97]

Well @TT97, here goes:

(11:46:03) Jay : Hi. I am supposed to be getting a new EV around January of '23, a Fisker Ocean, and I'm getting a model that supports bi-directional charging, which is pretty interesting to me.

I've not owned an EV before, so charging itself is slightly new to me & bi-directional charging is entirely new. Is there a chance to speak with someone for even 15 minutes to get a better understanding and to learn more about features/timing on your upcoming V2X charger? Or is there a pdf brochure you can email? I'd appreciate anything.

FWIW:

• I'm just up the road in Boulder, CO
• The garage came wired for 240v, using two 30-amp breakers. I have never tried the outlet, though, and am not sure the exact gauge on the wiring.
• Details on the Fisker are a little scarce, so I don't know anything about onboard components and how it supports V2H or V2G, though they claim it supports both.
• We aren't wired for solar at this house, but we are considering it, even though the roof tilts to the east & may not be ideal for PV. Might still be worth it.

Thanks so much & kindest regards.

-Jay
(11:47:22) Joe: Hello Jay I can help today
(11:47:43) Jay : Thanks, Joe. I realize that was a big blurt of info.
(11:48:08) Joe: not a problem! let me get some answers going here
(11:48:35) Joe: first off. our goals right now are to have it available summer of 2023 and to come in right under $1500
(11:49:27) Joe: the main factor in whether this will work or not has to do with vehicle capability which is what it sounds like you checked on first
(11:49:38) Joe: I will grab you the technical specs sheet:
(11:50:02) Joe: https://uploads-ssl.webflow.com/5fff2b7694451e66ba2f5a3d/62391e1af2e2de84a391b2e2_V2X Charger Technical Specs.pdf
(11:50:13) Jay : Thanks. Please let me know if that is okay to share with other future Fisker owners.
(11:50:45) Joe: anything ive said so far is great to share!
(11:51:52) Joe: any idea what charging port the ocean has?
(11:51:53) Jay : My understanding is, without solar, that's the only component needed...true? With solar, there would be another item?
(11:52:10) Jay : CCS-1 on the Ocean
(11:52:14) Joe: perfect
(11:53:09) Joe: yep we will us a ccs-1
(11:54:53) Joe: the only extra thing you would need would be if you wanted to utilize excess solar for charging the car. You would put our Gen 2 Vue in your panel at home to net meter your usage vs production. then in the app with our excess solar functionality turned on, the energy monitor would tell the app when to turn on/ off the charger and what charge rate to adjust it to in order to use only excess solar to charge the car
(11:55:01) Joe: this is not necessaary to use the charger on its own
(11:55:31) Jay : Roger that. What's the Gen 2 Vue go for?
(11:56:25) Joe: all that is necessary for net metering is the whole home package that comes with 2 200a sensors for the main feeds from utility and that is 84.99 before tax
(11:57:47) Joe: and then there are pacakges that come with individual circuit sensors for amore in depth look at your usage
(11:57:54) Jay : Again, very decent pricing. What's the install of these if I've already got the 240 outlet? And I have to go to a meeting in a minute...
(11:58:39) Joe: install pricing? depends on the electrician
(11:58:53) Joe: no worries you can always hop back in with questions in the future!
(11:59:17) Jay : Thanks, Joe.
(11:59:56) Joe: no problem Jay!

Thanks. I am familiar with the Gen 2 Vue - that is just an energy monitoring system, there are a few on the market - Gen 2 Vue & Sense are the two most common (and Span if you want to replace your entire panel). I think the concept is that it will measure the usage for the house and production of solar and will automatically send any excess solar production to the car so the system will never be sending any power back to the utility. Curious if it will send power from the car if solar production is less than consumption. (If you know what you are doing, Gen 2 Vue installation is a DIY project - it's just adding sensors to each circuit.)

Doesn't really discuss setting up for battery backup protection. I am sure there will be plenty of YouTube videos once the product comes out. I'm curious on how 100% DC charging to the car is for the battery - it still charging at the same speed as AC charging so probably no different on the battery (the onboard charger will get less wear & tear).

 

[FiskerKBH7922]

This is why I find the Emporia V2X unit so interesting. About $1500 + installation and it's supposed to be released in July. If you have no solar, that cost is supposed to be the total. With a solar installation at your house, add an $85 part + installation. Automatic cutover to your car battery as a power source if the grid goes down.

That info is all based on a chat I had with their customer service & I can post the transcript here if you want. General info here: How the Emporia V2X Bi-Directional Charger Works

I'll admit right off that I'm new to home charging, so I'm really, really new to bi-directional charging. Curious what others who know more think of the concept/product.

Does this mean if I currently have no solar, all I would need is the Emporia V2X installed? I was wondering if a transfer switch still needs to be installed between the Emporia V2X and your electric panel box to protect your house when using your car like a generator? Would it be wise to add the $85 part Emporia Energy management system if you don’t have solar but might want to do so in the future or just wait, since it’s an extra installation charge if you do it at another time? Just curious if you can answer my questions.

 

[Jay]

@FiskerKBH7922, needing just the one V2X box was my takeaway from my chat with Emporia's customer service. I don't know about your solar question, but it sounds pretty smart to me. At least worth an ask of them.

 

[Jay]

@FiskerKBH7922 & all, I got some more info from Emporia on their upcoming V2X bi-directional charger (aiming for July 2023).

1. If no solar, just the one V2X box is needed for bi-directional charging (USD ~$1500 + install)

2. If you have a solar installation (or think you might in the future), it makes sense to add the extra Gen 2 Vue box (USD $85 + install). It needs to be recalibrated when you get solar added to your system.

3. The failover from using the normal electrical grid or solar array to have the Fisker Ocean power your home is not fully built yet & they couldn't say for sure f it was going to be manual or automatic.

4. If your next or other EV doesn't have a CCS plug, you would need an adapter. Doesn't matter if the next car supports V2H or not, if it uses CCS you can charge it with this box.

5. I offered to help with beta testing & they added me to a contact list.

 

[MTN Ranger]

So if you are using V2H when the power is out, do you need to switch off the main breaker of the main service panel to the house? That way no power from the car can get to the street. Correct?

For example, I'm talking about the 200A breaker just below the meter, this is what mine looks like on the side of my house:

 

[Jay]

Errr....let me ask.

 

[Jay]

@MTN Ranger: So, I just called them. Super helpful.

1. There is an additional transfer switch needed, so the bad news is you can add ~$1k to the $1500 solution. I haven't priced them, so I don't know for sure but I think $1k is a decent lower estimate. The good news is that you wouldn't have to manually flip the main breaker.

2. You can configure this solution to automatically failover to the car in case of power outage. This guy on the phone was certain (and I could confirm by asking) where the last person in email wasn't sure.

He said that bi-directional charging is so new to everyone & there are very few cars around that do it. They were pretty jazzed to have someone close by who could maybe help with beta testing. So, fingers crossed.

EDIT: quick google search & it looks like the automatic transfer switches can be a lot less expensive than $1000 but can also go a lot higher. I'm going to stick with my estimate and see what an electrician can come up with.

 

[MTN Ranger]

@MTN Ranger: So, I just called them. Super helpful.

1. There is an additional transfer switch needed, so the bad news is you can add ~$1k to the $1500 solution. I haven't priced them, so I don't know for sure but I think $1k is a decent lower estimate. The good news is that you wouldn't have to manually flip the main breaker.

2. You can configure this solution to automatically failover to the car in case of power outage. This guy on the phone was certain (and I could confirm by asking) where the last person in email wasn't sure.

He said that bi-directional charging is so new to everyone & there are very few cars around that do it. They were pretty jazzed to have someone close by who could maybe help with beta testing. So, fingers crossed.

EDIT: quick google search & it looks like the automatic transfer switches can be a lot less expensive than $1000 but can also go a lot higher. I'm going to stick with my estimate and see what an electrician can come up with.

Interesting, thanks for the research! I suppose it makes sense to always keep your car plugged in just in case. I'm in the habit of only plugging in once or twice a week.

 

[BayouCityBob]

@MTN Ranger: So, I just called them. Super helpful.

1. There is an additional transfer switch needed, so the bad news is you can add ~$1k to the $1500 solution. I haven't priced them, so I don't know for sure but I think $1k is a decent lower estimate. The good news is that you wouldn't have to manually flip the main breaker.

2. You can configure this solution to automatically failover to the car in case of power outage. This guy on the phone was certain (and I could confirm by asking) where the last person in email wasn't sure.

He said that bi-directional charging is so new to everyone & there are very few cars around that do it. They were pretty jazzed to have someone close by who could maybe help with beta testing. So, fingers crossed.

EDIT: quick google search & it looks like the automatic transfer switches can be a lot less expensive than $1000 but can also go a lot higher. I'm going to stick with my estimate and see what an electrician can come up with.

Pretty sure this is basically identical to the Transfer switch we have in our Generac backup generator (natural gas pu in in 2011). You can select the circuits you want to protect to manage the load size (we have main level only backed up). It requires a switch outside that automatically switches to the backup power supply and it has smart management load control modules at the breaker panel to energize only those circuits that are backed up.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Generac-RTSN200J3-200-Amp-Transfer-Switch-120-240-3-NEMA-3R-CUL/5003466669?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-sol-_-bng-_-PLA_SOL_240_Pressure-Washers-Generators-_-5003466669-_-Online-_-0-_-0&ds_rl=1286981&msclkid=69466e511a61142ffcce0c8e30d5c211&gclid=69466e511a61142ffcce0c8e30d5c211&gclsrc=3p.ds

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Generac-100-Amp-Smart-Management-Module/1003091808

 

[TT97]

@MTN Ranger: So, I just called them. Super helpful.

1. There is an additional transfer switch needed, so the bad news is you can add ~$1k to the $1500 solution. I haven't priced them, so I don't know for sure but I think $1k is a decent lower estimate. The good news is that you wouldn't have to manually flip the main breaker.

2. You can configure this solution to automatically failover to the car in case of power outage. This guy on the phone was certain (and I could confirm by asking) where the last person in email wasn't sure.

He said that bi-directional charging is so new to everyone & there are very few cars around that do it. They were pretty jazzed to have someone close by who could maybe help with beta testing. So, fingers crossed.

EDIT: quick google search & it looks like the automatic transfer switches can be a lot less expensive than $1000 but can also go a lot higher. I'm going to stick with my estimate and see what an electrician can come up with.

Thanks. That was my assumption for what is needed (I figured it would be the same set up as a battery backup but with the car replacing the batteries). Emporia also has a Smart Home Battery System coming out with components that could be used with the bi-directional charging. Ideally, you would probably want a small backup battery as well for uninterrupted power if the car is not plugged in when the power goes out (and also allows for the opportunity to charge up at a DCFC in case of an extended blackout).

 

[Wobbegong]

Here's another bi-directional charger that I just found online: Electric vehicle charger Quasar 2 bi-directional Wallbox

There's a form at the bottom of that page that you can submit to get more information.

 

[TT97]

Here's another bi-directional charger that I just found online: Electric vehicle charger Quasar 2 bi-directional Wallbox

There's a form at the bottom of that page that you can submit to get more information.

I have a Wallbox Pulsar I am very happy with and had previously signed up for more info. Here is the email response you get:

Hi xxxx,​

​

Thank you for reaching out to Wallbox and for your interest in Quasar. We are excited by the industry interest in Quasar and in the future of bidirectional charging for homes.​

​

While we have begun sales and shipment of Quasar in select regional markets outside the United States, we are continuing to iterate and evolve the development of Quasar for the North American market to ensure that it meets the needs and expectations of customers across this region and that Quasar is fully compatible with EVs sold in North America. We are currently expecting Quasar North America to go into production in late 2022.​

​

As our engineers continue to develop Quasar for North America, we are working with North American utilities, auto manufacturers and other partners to test and validate Quasar and our bidirectional charging technology to ensure compatibility with regional electrical standards and with EV makes and models sold in North America. Indeed part of the future success of Quasar and bidirectional charging depends on more EVs being bidirectional-capable. When Quasar does arrive in the region, it will be an even better and more capable product than it is today.​

​

In the meantime, we continue to bring other new products to North America. We recently launched the all new Pulsar Plus, a smart, Level 2 charger designed specifically for the North American market capable of up to 48Amps of charging power. In the next year we will also enter the public charging market with the arrival of Supernova, a DC fast charging system whose modular design and low cost of operation and installation promises to make DC fast charging more affordable and convenient for public installations. To stay in touch on these developments, as well as the progress on Quasar, we invite you to subscribe to our newsletter--sign up at EVOLVE​

​

Thanks again for your interest and for joining us in our journey to bring this unique product and technology to North America!​

​

Best regards,​

​

The Wallbox North America Team​

 

[Wobbegong]

Jay (TT97):

Yep, that's exactly what I got.

 

[crider1]

Seems to me that all that is required is a manual transfer switch or even a simple plug that that allows for power feed to the downstream side of the main circuit breaker in the service panel. When power goes out you would shut off the main breaker and switch to the auxiliary (EV) feed to power all circuits. Auto transfer switches are there to make a transition from a generator to home power automatic and seamless. During a power outage you can make that manual switch yourself in about 5 minutes.

 

[onevoice]

I have a Wallbox Pulsar I am very happy with and had previously signed up for more info. Here is the email response you get:

Hi xxxx,​

​

Thank you for reaching out to Wallbox and for your interest in Quasar. We are excited by the industry interest in Quasar and in the future of bidirectional charging for homes.​

​

While we have begun sales and shipment of Quasar in select regional markets outside the United States, we are continuing to iterate and evolve the development of Quasar for the North American market to ensure that it meets the needs and expectations of customers across this region and that Quasar is fully compatible with EVs sold in North America. We are currently expecting Quasar North America to go into production in late 2022.​

​

As our engineers continue to develop Quasar for North America, we are working with North American utilities, auto manufacturers and other partners to test and validate Quasar and our bidirectional charging technology to ensure compatibility with regional electrical standards and with EV makes and models sold in North America. Indeed part of the future success of Quasar and bidirectional charging depends on more EVs being bidirectional-capable. When Quasar does arrive in the region, it will be an even better and more capable product than it is today.​

​

In the meantime, we continue to bring other new products to North America. We recently launched the all new Pulsar Plus, a smart, Level 2 charger designed specifically for the North American market capable of up to 48Amps of charging power. In the next year we will also enter the public charging market with the arrival of Supernova, a DC fast charging system whose modular design and low cost of operation and installation promises to make DC fast charging more affordable and convenient for public installations. To stay in touch on these developments, as well as the progress on Quasar, we invite you to subscribe to our newsletter--sign up at EVOLVE​

​

Thanks again for your interest and for joining us in our journey to bring this unique product and technology to North America!​

​

Best regards,​

​

The Wallbox North America Team​

I wrote to the Wallbox company a couple of months ago. Their response to me was that it may become available in US in the latter half of 2023:

Thank you for reaching out to Wallbox and for your interest in Quasar. We are excited by the industry interest in Quasar and in the future of bidirectional charging for homes.

While we have begun sales and shipment of Quasar in select regional markets outside the United States, we are continuing to iterate and evolve the development of Quasar for the North American market to ensure that it meets the needs and expectations of customers across this region and that Quasar is fully compatible with EVs sold in North America. We are currently expecting Quasar North America to go into production in the second half of 2023.

As our engineers continue to develop Quasar for North America, we are working with North American utilities, auto manufacturers and other partners to test and validate Quasar and our bidirectional charging technology to ensure compatibility with regional electrical standards and with EV makes and models sold in North America. Indeed part of the future success of Quasar and bidirectional charging depends on more EVs being bidirectional-capable. When Quasar does arrive in the region, it will be an even better and more capable product than it is today.

In the meantime, we continue to bring other new products to North America. We recently launched the all new Pulsar Plus, a smart, Level 2 charger designed specifically for the North American market capable of up to 48Amps of charging power. In the next year we will also enter the public charging market with the arrival of Supernova, a DC fast charging system whose modular design and low cost of operation and installation promises to make DC fast charging more affordable and convenient for public installations. To stay in touch on these developments, as well as the progress on Quasar, we invite you to subscribe to our newsletter--sign up at EVOLVE

Thanks again for your interest and for joining us in our journey to bring this unique product and technology to North America!

Best regards,

The Wallbox North America Team

The Wallbox solution maybe cheaper than the Sunrun's system for the Ford F-150 Lightning pickup. Sunrun's solution consists of Home Integration System which costs $3,895 and the 80 Amp charger, which is $1,310. Added together would be $5,205 for the total system required. My impression from the Wallbox company was the Quasar 2 system is a single system that contains the AC inverter to convert an EV's high voltage DC battery current to AC currents to power a home. IIRC, they mentioned the product would cost around $1500, which is similar to the Emporia's solution. Since Emporia is already selling 48A Charger for $399, this company's future bi-directional charger maybe the way to go. Hopefully their bi-directional charger becomes available before the Oceans begins delivery to North America.

 

[sailon]

Crider1, I was thinking the same thing. I already have a transfer box installed in the garage that I can connect up to a portable Honda generator in a storm. Trying to figure out why it couldn’t connect to the Ocean in the same manner but I might be missing something.

 

[onevoice]

Seems to me that all that is required is a manual transfer switch or even a simple plug that that allows for power feed to the downstream side of the main circuit breaker in the service panel. When power goes out you would shut off the main breaker and switch to the auxiliary (EV) feed to power all circuits. Auto transfer switches are there to make a transition from a generator to home power automatic and seamless. During a power outage you can make that manual switch yourself in about 5 minutes.

I currently do that for a portable generator that I can plug into the whole house. During a power outage, I turn off the master breaker switch. Then I connect the generator to its dedicated 240V 30A circuits, then start up the generator. During the last hurricane Ian that walloped Florida, we lost power for almost 24 hours, so it was good to have generator to power our 3 full size refrigerators and a 20 CF freezer as well as any other 120V appliances plugged anywhere in the house. If I had a bigger generator, it would have also powered any 240V appliances. There is a interlocking mechanism you can buy that only let's master circuit breaker on/generator circuit off, or master circuit breaker off/generator circuit on. This interlock mechanism would only work if the generator circuit breaker is in either the top left or right position.

 

[MTN Ranger]

The V2G/V2H feature will not be available on the Ocean until the end of 2023 or during 2024. I don't see getting a bi-directional solution to be a major rush at this point. I also want to make sure there are no compatibility issues with the different systems.

 

[onevoice]

The V2G/V2H feature will not be available on the Ocean until the end of 2023 or during 2024. I don't see getting a bi-directional solution to be a major rush at this point. I also want to make sure there are no compatibility issues with the different systems.

Agreed with all you said, MTN Ranger. It doesn't hurt to get an early look to see who are the leading cost effective vendors in this arena. I will need to purchase a level 2 charger for my Ocean next year if a compatible bi-directional charger is not available by the time my Ocean is delivered so that I don't have to buy two different charging systems.

 

[MTN Ranger]

Agreed with all you said, MTN Ranger. It doesn't hurt to get an early look to see who are the leading cost effective vendors in this arena. I will need to purchase a level 2 charger for my Ocean next year if a compatible bi-directional charger is not available by the time my Ocean is delivered so that I don't have to buy two different charging systems.

Sorry, I don't mean to dampen any enthusiasm. The Emporia looks to be a good cost-effective option when it arrives. I fear the Wallbox Quasar 2 will be pricey. Hopefully there will be other providers next year working on this.

At some point, I do see myself getting one of these. In the mean time, I have a NEMA 14-50 and 14-30.