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Politicians regardless of party are all about lining their own pockets. It's nice seeing so many news outlets catch on and point out how flawed this part of the bill is. It's not going to change anything but at least people are seeing it.
 

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Politicians regardless of party are all about lining their own pockets. It's nice seeing so many news outlets catch on and point out how flawed this part of the bill is. It's not going to change anything but at least people are seeing it.
It's flawed if your goal is to get more EVs in to more people's hands as quickly as possible. It's smart if your goal is to bring EV manufacturing back to the USA as fast as possible. It sucks for me as a buyer, but it's a positive step for the planet overall and for US jobs.
 

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It's flawed if your goal is to get more EVs in to more people's hands as quickly as possible. It's smart if your goal is to bring EV manufacturing back to the USA as fast as possible. It sucks for me as a buyer, but it's a positive step for the planet overall and for US jobs.
It's not a positive step for the planet as you are delaying adoption of cleaner technologies. It is also not a positive step for US jobs as the manufacturing can be anywhere in North America. It is a positive step to continue relying on fossil fuels though.
 

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It's flawed if your goal is to get more EVs in to more people's hands as quickly as possible. It's smart if your goal is to bring EV manufacturing back to the USA as fast as possible. It sucks for me as a buyer, but it's a positive step for the planet overall and for US jobs.
Bring EV Manufacturing to the US when we don't have any factories in place? That's doing this backwards. We need to get EV's into the hands of the masses. It makes no sense to bring manufacturing to the US when people aren't adopting EV's in the first place because they're stupid expensive. We need to slow the heating of the planet that we're living on. EV's are like 4% of the total automotive market. What good is bringing manufacturing into the US when people aren't buying them?
 

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If it were me, I would have created a bill that provides benefits for ALL EV's for a certain number of years (3 or 4) and then said after this date and year, the credit only applies to EV's that have X,Y,Z requirements. That gives manufacturers time to start building said plants in the US so we can actually have places for those jobs to be stationed.
 

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If it were me, I would have created a bill that provides benefits for ALL EV's for a certain number of years (3 or 4) and then said after this date and year, the credit only applies to EV's that have X,Y,Z requirements. That gives manufacturers time to start building said plants in the US so we can actually have places for those jobs to be stationed.
^^^ This. If there had been even a 24 month transition plan it would all be fine. Everyone could have adjusted. Right now, this bill looks good for GM and Ford but great for Tesla which should have 1.2 million vehicle a year US capacity by eoy and the most integrated battery production which should be easiest (not easy) to change over. It can tweak pricing and OTA options to make everything fit the credit. Should be a massive windfall for Tesla shareholders.
 

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Bring EV Manufacturing to the US when we don't have any factories in place? That's doing this backwards. We need to get EV's into the hands of the masses. It makes no sense to bring manufacturing to the US when people aren't adopting EV's in the first place because they're stupid expensive. We need to slow the heating of the planet that we're living on. EV's are like 1% of the total automotive market. What good is bringing manufacturing into the US when people aren't buying them?
Well this bill will MOTIVATE companies to bring factories back here or build them. Corps react to financial incentives and now this gives them one. They SHOULD have kept the old "first 200k EVs" tax credit in place, then extended it with this domestic production requirement, but they didn't. Also I'm pretty sure there are wait lists for almost every EV out there, so people are definitely buying them already.
 

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Well this bill will MOTIVATE companies to bring factories back here or build them. Corps react to financial incentives and now this gives them one. They SHOULD have kept the old "first 200k EVs" tax credit in place, then extended it with this domestic production requirement, but they didn't.
Also I'm pretty sure there are wait lists for almost every EV out there, so people are definitely buying them already.
The bill in my opinion does not motivate any manufactur to come to the US. Automotive manufacturers are probably going to have to start partnering with companies to get them to come here. This bill is very backwards. Samsung and LG and many others have said they will build factories in the US before this bill even came about but they won't open until 2025 or 2026. I am not entirely sure what good or how that helps the climate change problem today. The bill is going to slow down the adoption of EV's.

The only reason there is kind of waitlist for any EV is because 1. Manufacturers are ramping production and 2.) becuase supply chains are hurting. ICE cars are facing the same delays. Keep note that EV sales were 4.4% of total car sales in 2021.

When I picked up my Model Y Dec. 2020, it was a one month wait tops. Just my two cents. :)
 

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This bill accomplishes Manchin's goal of killing the EV tax credit without making any politician stand up and say they removed/killed the EV tax credit. :)

I would love to have more manufacturing and sourcing for EVs in the US, but it's not going to happen before January 1st. A two-year transition for sourcing combined with removal of the 200K cap would've accelerated EV adoption AND brought more factories/jobs to the US. In the meantime, this is a multi-year hit to new EV manufacturers (who may see demand drop-off due to the loss of tax credit) and doesn't even do that much for GM/Ford unless their battery mineral content is in order. I can't WAIT to see how anyone is going to be able to monitor/enforce this thing.

One other thing that hasn't been considered....NIMBYism and how it will grind things to a halt. There are already stalled mining projects because - strangely - no one wants a lithium mine in their backyard. I sure hope Joe has more than coal in West Virginia, because we're going to need to do a LOT of mining to make up for China's 75-80% dominance in mining and processing.
 

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This bill accomplishes Manchin's goal of killing the EV tax credit without making any politician stand up and say they removed/killed the EV tax credit. :)

I would love to have more manufacturing and sourcing for EVs in the US, but it's not going to happen before January 1st. A two-year transition for sourcing combined with removal of the 200K cap would've accelerated EV adoption AND brought more factories/jobs to the US. In the meantime, this is a multi-year hit to new EV manufacturers (who may see demand drop-off due to the loss of tax credit) and doesn't even do that much for GM/Ford unless their battery mineral content is in order. I can't WAIT to see how anyone is going to be able to monitor/enforce this thing.

One other thing that hasn't been considered....NIMBYism and how it will grind things to a halt. There are already stalled mining projects because - strangely - no one wants a lithium mine in their backyard. I sure hope Joe has more than coal in West Virginia, because we're going to need to do a LOT of mining to make up for China's 75-80% dominance in mining and processing.
This is really the problem, in my tiny opinion. While the current bill can be argued to look good on paper from the perspective of "brining jobs and manufacturing to the US"; and there is a little part of me that would like to believe that. The fact is that there is no guarantee that it will. Citizens of the US fight tooth and nail to block new factories and mining constantly. Ask yourself if you would want a factory within smelling distance of your house. There is a reason that manufacturing got moved outside the US when it comes to cost as well. Every country is willing to do it cheaper.
If we were really moving forward, we would already be safely mining the Salton Sea in California. But we aren't because people are not convinced we can do it safely or without impact on the environment. This bill will not change that.
 

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Bring EV Manufacturing to the US when we don't have any factories in place? That's doing this backwards. We need to get EV's into the hands of the masses. It makes no sense to bring manufacturing to the US when people aren't adopting EV's in the first place because they're stupid expensive. We need to slow the heating of the planet that we're living on. EV's are like 4% of the total automotive market. What good is bringing manufacturing into the US when people aren't buying them?
People aren’t buying them? The only one people aren’t buying is the Nissan Leaf.
 

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People aren’t buying them? The only one people aren’t buying is the Nissan Leaf.
I think you are being a bit unfair to Nissan here. There are several EVs that have struggled to sell and for which supply has consistently exceeded demand in US: Leaf, Bolt, Mazda MX30, iPace (someone had to say it). I know it is heresy here to pick on the Magna iPace, but let's face it, it has been a massive flop in the US. It has sold 321 units 1H this year and a grand total of 6,600 units since 2018. By that standard, the Leaf's pretty consistent ~1,200 units a month look downright fabulous.
 

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I think you are being a bit unfair to Nissan here. There are several EVs that have struggled to sell and for which supply has consistently exceeded demand in US: Leaf, Bolt, Mazda MX30, iPace (someone had to say it). I know it is heresy here to pick on the Magna iPace, but let's face it, it has been a massive flop in the US. It has sold 321 units 1H this year and a grand total of 6,600 units since 2018. By that standard, the Leaf's pretty consistent ~1,200 units a month look downright fabulous.
So surprised Americans not buying Ipace.

Any reason?
 

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So surprised Americans not buying Ipace.

Any reason?
To be fair, no one anywhere is buying the iPace. Its best year ever was only 17k vehicles globally. iPace launched in 2018 shortly after the Model 3. It has sold 54,800 worldwide as of Q2. In the US it sold only 6,600 through Q2 this year. When you look at the iPace is has a number of problems that kept it from being competitive:
1) Range - It had only 234 miles of range, this killed it. They have boosted this year to 246, still not competitive and with the 22" wheels even the longer-range current models 217 miles.
2) Price - it is expensive for what you get. Starting price is currently $71k but you will hit $75k in no time with just some very basic options
3) Charging Speed Sucks - it takes 40 minutes to add a 150 EPA miles. It is awful
4) Efficiency is crap. It burns 440 wh/mile in the EPA rating.
5) Performance is meh at 4.5 seconds (definitely not a high performance vehicle)
6) Interior space sucks: rear leg room is a full 5" less than the Ocean or the Model Y. Front Leg room is also less.

 

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This bill accomplishes Manchin's goal of killing the EV tax credit without making any politician stand up and say they removed/killed the EV tax credit. :)

I would love to have more manufacturing and sourcing for EVs in the US, but it's not going to happen before January 1st. A two-year transition for sourcing combined with removal of the 200K cap would've accelerated EV adoption AND brought more factories/jobs to the US. In the meantime, this is a multi-year hit to new EV manufacturers (who may see demand drop-off due to the loss of tax credit) and doesn't even do that much for GM/Ford unless their battery mineral content is in order. I can't WAIT to see how anyone is going to be able to monitor/enforce this thing.

One other thing that hasn't been considered....NIMBYism and how it will grind things to a halt. There are already stalled mining projects because - strangely - no one wants a lithium mine in their backyard. I sure hope Joe has more than coal in West Virginia, because we're going to need to do a LOT of mining to make up for China's 75-80% dominance in mining and processing.
Well said!👍
 

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Well said!👍
It is so much more... Manchin / Exxon got this into the bill as well:
• Every time the federal government approves a wind or solar rights of way it must also (within 120 days) offer an additional 2 million acres of federal land for Oil & Gas Leases
• It must also offer no less than 60 million acres of offshore O&G leases as a requirement to issue offshore wind leases the following year.
Not making any of this up.
 
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