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China and the US are the global SUV sales leaders by far. 🌏

EV leading countries are a different story, but even mid-sized SUV's like the Ocean I think are just too big for the majority of European owners, at least historically. 🤷‍♂️

The historic lack of SUVs in Europe had more to do with price of gasoline and the thirsty nature of the SUVs than to do with their size. Europeans always prefered estate wagons as they had the same cargo capacity with better fuel economy and performance. If you look at EV sales in Europe, it is littered with mid-size SUVs at the top with the Y outselling the 3, the ID.4 outselling the ID.3.
 

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Here is the full text. Dated November 22. Who knows if it's the final word but probably the plan as of now.

Thank you for contacting Fisker.
As reservations are not tied to any trim level or configuration, you may make a reservation for a Fisker Ocean at any time. You will be able to officially lock-in a Fisker Ocean Ultra when pre-orders for that model open during Q1 of 2023; Fisker will notify you via email when your reservation becomes eligible to do so. Please keep a sharp eye on your email inbox (including your spam) for emails from Fisker in regard to pre-orders in the near future.
Please refer to the timeline of upcoming key dates below:


• November 17, 2022 - Start of Fisker Ocean production (Fisker Ocean One trim, no longer available)
• Mid January 2023 - Fisker Ocean Extreme pre-orders open
• Q1 2023 - Fisker Ocean Ultra and Sport pre-orders open (if in the United States, for 2024 delivery)
• June 2023 - Fisker Ocean Extreme production starts
• Q3 2023 - Fisker Ocean Ultra production starts
• Late-2023 - Fisker Ocean Sport production starts (initially in modest volumes, higher volume in 2024)

Sincerely,
Your Fisker Radgiver
Looks like us Ultra peeps are guaranteed waiting until 2024. Kinda figured this already but still disappointing if this holds true.
 

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Looks like us Ultra peeps are guaranteed waiting until 2024.
Kinda figured this already but still disappointing if this holds true.
Not sure if this applies to CANADIAN Ultra Reservation Holders who are amongst the first 40,000....
 

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Not sure if this applies to CANADIAN Ultra Reservation Holders who are amongst the first 40,000....
Since the original timeline had Canada 3 months after the us for start of deliveries, and the us has been pushed back my guess is Canada will be pushed back as well. My guess is transport Canada and delivery locations/lounges are part of the reason for the delay.

I was late to the party on my reservation so I'm probably 2024. Maybe a good thing, sort out the inevitable first run bugs in 2023.
The only detractor for me would be not being able to lock in at the current price. I imagine there will be a substantial increase to the base price for 2024.
 

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Europeans always prefered estate wagons as they had the same cargo capacity with better fuel economy and performance. If you look at EV sales in Europe, it is littered with mid-size SUVs at the top with the Y outselling the 3, the ID.4 outselling the ID.3.
To my mind, this is a matter of sales-semantics. "Mid-sized SUV"/"Crossover SUV", to me, is marketing-speak for "nobody in the US wants to admit to driving a stationwagon". Crossovers are "estate wagons", which would place Fisker just fine in the EU. It's the full-sized SUVs, like the Suburban, which had trouble selling in Europe.
 

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To my mind, this is a matter of sales-semantics. "Mid-sized SUV"/"Crossover SUV", to me, is marketing-speak for "nobody in the US wants to admit to driving a stationwagon". Crossovers are "estate wagons", which would place Fisker just fine in the EU. It's the full-sized SUVs, like the Suburban, which had trouble selling in Europe.
You raise an excellent point which we have had to manage in our work. SUV had a historical definition which included body-on-frame architecture, selectable 4WD, and similar attributes. Over time, this has been watered down and confounded by the more recent use of CUV/Crossover. That term was launched by the industry to acknowledge vehicles that were "crossing over" from being an SUV to actually being a variation of a passenger car. Over more time, both terms have been used interchangeably and both have lost clear meaning. At our company in this industry, we simply use UV for all utility vehicles, and even that has its' weaknesses as we recognize that many so-called UVs are just tall cars on unibody architecture with RWD or full time AWD....not quite the historic Wrangler, Scout, or Bronco of decades ago.

We did some consumer research with silhouettes. First, please understand my use of 2-box vs 3-box. The "box" is a portion of the car....hood/passenger compartment/trunk. A conventional sedan is a 3-box design. A UV is 2-box, with no protruding trunk at the rear. The research showed us the level at which most respondents think:

Silhouettes shown and consumer category:
3-box usual height = car (2 or 4 door)
2-box usual height and long length = station wagon
2-box usual height = hatchback car
2-box tall height = SUV

It seems "SUV" has taken most share of mind, perhaps some also have heard or use "Crossover", but these are judged on the taller height and shape. But, the true meaning of SUV is long gone and now most people simply think of it as a shape, not a function, based on the research we did.
 

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Note that Extreme still allegedly has "$34,000 worth of features and upgrades" which is a bit tough to swallow since adding all Extreme packages plus upgraded interior to the ultra only adds $18k which means that the solar roof, limo mode, and upgraded sound system are notionally worth $16k. (cough cough)
 

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Note that Extreme still allegedly has "$34,000 worth of features and upgrades" which is a bit tough to swallow since adding all Extreme packages plus upgraded interior to the ultra only adds $18k which means that the solar roof, limo mode, and upgraded sound system are notionally worth $16k. (cough cough)
That sounds correct, since HF has mentioned in the past that adding the Solar Roof would add approximately $10,000 to the cost.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
That sounds correct, since HF has mentioned in the past that adding the Solar Roof would add approximately $10,000 to the cost.
The stupidity (not you, Fisker). You are telling me changing from a clear glass roof (my preference) to a fit inducing inverted chess board is another 10k. To put another way that little bit costs the same as almost a third cost of the sport or represents 20% of the cost of the ultra.

Stupidity at its finest. I'd prefer if he was going to do that then say it's £100,000 upgrade for the solar roof. Let's face it, no one can argue as no on else sells it so price it what you like.

Saying it's 10k for the roof still leaves 6k left. I know what, I'll say it'll cost 2k to have some plasticky single colour rear a/c control... Bear in mind others have a much more legacy way to do this... And say pluck another 4k on the upgraded sound.

I mean... It's a load of BS. If the extreme had any colour choice plus wheels then yes... I could understand that but as it is... Seems desperate to move Extreme stock..

Fyi I'm a Extreme reservation holder. But I got to call BS when I see it.
 

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The stupidity (not you, Fisker). You are telling me changing from a clear glass roof (my preference) to a fit inducing inverted chess board is another 10k. To put another way that little bit costs the same as almost a third cost of the sport or represents 20% of the cost of the ultra.

Stupidity at its finest. I'd prefer if he was going to do that then say it's £100,000 upgrade for the solar roof. Let's face it, no one can argue as no on else sells it so price it what you like.

Saying it's 10k for the roof still leaves 6k left. I know what, I'll say it'll cost 2k to have some plasticky single colour rear a/c control... Bear in mind others have a much more legacy way to do this... And say pluck another 4k on the upgraded sound.

I mean... It's a load of BS. If the extreme had any colour choice plus wheels then yes... I could understand that but as it is... Seems desperate to move Extreme stock..

Fyi I'm a Extreme reservation holder. But I got to call BS when I see it.
Love the "fit inducing inverted chess board" description. 😄 Fisker definitely needs a power shade for this roof.

I have heard it said that the technology and process to create this solar roof is very expensive though. It's a really cool feature, and even though I never expect to break even on it's cost in energy savings, I'm looking forward to having it on my Extreme. Like you though, I do wish Fisker would have included at least one choice of paint, wheels or interior for the "Top of the Line" Extreme trim.
 

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This. People seem to be of the notion you can just buy parts like this off the shelf. I'm not saying I agree with the price HF quoted, but it's definitely an expensive part.
Not to mention all the time and money for development of this particular part for this particular car from whatever company. Plus how many Fisker is going to promise to buy to get such a large high tech roof glass/solar panel down to a certain price for its availability for Xamount of cars (well we know it’s 5000 plus all preproduction). Then you add in all the gizmos to go with it (whatever is between the roof and the battery, wiring harness, and measurement devices that inform the UI what the solar radiation did to range on this sunny day today).

All that being said, if I wasn’t getting a ONE, then I probably wouldn’t buy it if it was over $2500 extra, but it’s going to be there for free so I’m digging it

And, I certainly can’t blame any company for wanting to make a profit on a part or option. I bet Porsche laughs all the way to the bank when after they charge you OVER $100,000 for a somewhat loaded 🤬 Cayenne, THEN if you want one, they charge you over $400 for a chromatic rearview mirror that comes standard on most cars. F’ers .
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Not to mention all the time and money for development of this particular part for this particular car from whatever company. Plus how many Fisker is going to promise to buy to get such a large high tech roof glass/solar panel down to a certain price for its availability for Xamount of cars (well we know it’s 5000 plus all preproduction). Then you add in all the gizmos to go with it (whatever is between the roof and the battery, wiring harness, and measurement devices that inform the UI what the solar radiation did to range on this sunny day today).

All that being said, if I wasn’t getting a ONE, then I probably wouldn’t buy it if it was over $2500 extra, but it’s going to be there for free so I’m digging it

And, I certainly can’t blame any company for wanting to make a profit on a part or option. I bet Porsche laughs all the way to the bank when after they charge you OVER $100,000 for a somewhat loaded 🤬 Cayenne, THEN if you want one, they charge you over $400 for a chromatic rearview mirror that comes standard on most cars. F’ers .
You are right, in all fairness its upto Fisker to put a price, if despite us moaning if we don't like it, no one is forcing us to buy. Yes i would lik them to make a profit as if they don't then all of us that get cars are screwed for service and support later on, so be under no illusion i want them to suceed. I just feel if they'd given Exteme owners the option of having the clear roof vs the chessboard, many would choose the chess board. They can still make a profit. If they are trying to factor in 10 for the rook, give 1k off for those who dont want the solar roof, you still making 9k virtual profit.

I wanted the ocean to feel roomy, and the open sky roof was what i would like not the checkered flag above my head and the constant movement of the shadows on me!
 

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This. People seem to be of the notion you can just buy parts like this off the shelf. I'm not saying I agree with the price HF quoted, but it's definitely an expensive part.
But do you realize how cheap silicon is?! Give me a hunk of silicon and I could build it for, like, $10. ;)

Our decision is not being made based on "how much profit is Fisker making per car", but "is it a good deal for the price".
 

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But do you realize how cheap silicon is?! Give me a hunk of silicon and I could build it for, like, $10. ;)

Our decision is not being made based on "how much profit is Fisker making per car", but "is it a good deal for the price".
As I posted elsewhere, the cells they are using in the roof cost well under $300 per roof if you buy them in low volume on Alibaba. Definitely not the cells that are driving the cost.
 
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This just in... 👀

Wheel Tire Car Vehicle Plant
 
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