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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Yesterday afternoon I received a call and e-mail from my local Ford dealer to inform me that I have been "chosen" to proceed with my 2023 F150 order. I had put my $100 on day 1 well ahead of the other options being available to me. So they have something like 5 XLT's, 12 Lariats and 4 Platinum's ready to allocate. Pricing (CDN$) is insane:

XLT: $81,195
Lariat 511A: $110,445
Platinum: $123,195

I was initially interested in the Lariat trim, but I believe I'm going to pass. Also, they just introduced a luxury tax in CA which adds a 10% premium to any vehicles over 100K. I know that the F150 and Ocean are two very different vehicles, but the Ocean is looking a lot more viable in my opinion.
 

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Yesterday afternoon I received a call and e-mail from my local Ford dealer to inform me that I have been "chosen" to proceed with my 2023 F150 order. I had put my $100 on day 1 well ahead of the other options being available to me. So they have something like 5 XLT's, 12 Lariats and 4 Platinum's ready to allocate. Pricing (CDN$) is insane:

XLT: $81,195
Lariat 511A: $110,445
Platinum: $123,195

I was initially interested in the Lariat trim, but I believe I'm going to pass. Also, they just introduced a luxury tax in CA which adds a 10% premium to any vehicles over 100K. I know that the F150 and Ocean are two very different vehicles, but the Ocean is looking a lot more viable in my opinion.
I feel like a lot of early reservation holders for the Lightning will pass. The $40k USD value proposition is not even a thing anymore.
 

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I am still a firm believer that most contractors should pick one up. They are just so practical and with the accelerated tax write-off its a no-brainer in my mind.
So few people buying them are actually contractors /construction trades. Its more of a status symbol and a boat/trailer towing machine. Out of the dozens of people who owned them I could count on one hand the number of people I knew in Florida with 150’s/250’s who actually used them for work purposes .
 

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I saw an F150 Lightning today for the first time along with Rivian R1S and Hummer EV. Hummer is massive and looks gorgeous but doesn’t look overly long. My wife said, I want that now.

The F150 is waaay too long. It’s just unnecessarily long for a family vehicle.

R1S looks much smaller than both Hummer and F150 Lightning.

They were all parked next to one another at an Electrify America charging location next to Florida Mall in Orlando, FL. There was also a Polestar, a Mach E, two EV6s and my ID.4. I had to wait in line to charge for about 20 minutes, and two out of six stalls were broken.

It is becoming an issue now. I drove from Atlanta to Orlando yesterday. There was an issue with every Electrify America location on our way. The first charging location was giving out charging for free, but it was because they lowered their charging speed to 33 kW. So, I wasted a lot of time there figuring out why the charging speed was so slow until I finally called EA and they told me they lowered the charging speed on all four stalls, including the 350 kW stalls.

The second charging location had two broken chargers out of four.

The third charging location had one out of four chargers broken, and the fourth one had 2 out of 6chargers broken. This is absolutely unacceptable.

Additionally, I’m peeved about the 2022 ID.4 charging rate being so darn slow. At around 35% SOC, the charging rate is about 90 kW. At 50% SOC, it’s about 70 kW. At 75% SOC it’s close to 60 kW. And above 80% SOC the charging curve falls off the cliff to end at 40 kW at 90% SOC.

Driving at 75 mph, my efficiency is at about 2.7 miles per kW, making the range to be about 225 miles at 100% SOC. This is just not good enough for long road trips in the US.

In Orlando there is only one EA location (which is crazy). I had to drive 30 minutes to this location from the hotel we are staying in just to get enough charge for the weekend. So, 30 minutes there, 30 minutes back, 20 minutes of waiting in line to get a working stall, and 45 minutes to charge to 90% so that my charge can last through the weekend. The Orlando EA location is 30 minutes south of our hotel. When we start heading back north on Monday, I will have to again waste about 2 hours going to the same location south of the hotel to charge the ID.4 and then drive north again past my hotel - that is to get me to the next EA location north of Orlando (on the way to Atlanta).

We have now concluded that the ID.4 is not a suitable vehicle for road trips. It’s a fine commuter EV (as long as we charge at home), but it’s crazily inconvenient to travel in.

The scarcity of non-Tesla fast chargers makes traveling in an EV a pain in the rear. We are thinking that we can no longer be a family with two EVs and we need our road-trip SUV to be a conventional ICE vehicle so that we can go wherever we want and not waste hours on charging stops and charging detours.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
It is becoming an issue now. I drove from Atlanta to Orlando yesterday. There was an issue with every Electrify America location on our way. The first charging location was giving out charging for free, but it was because they lowered their charging speed to 33 kW. So, I wasted a lot of time there figuring out why the charging speed was so slow until I finally called EA and they told me they lowered the charging speed on all four stalls, including the 350 kW stalls.
I'm sorry to hear of your struggles with charging, but this is an eye-opening post. 90% of our trips are commuting or originate and end at home, but I want to be able to comfortably drive cross-country or into the US and not have to be impacted significantly by charging times/locations. If this is truly the norm for road trip experiences (ID.4 charging rate aside), it will make me rethink leaving the Tesla ecosystem. I've never had issues with road trips with my TM3. Longest trip was around 1400km. And I refuse to by another ICE vehicle.
 

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My bet is this rapidly improves over the next 12 months. The US isn't great at every thing or maybe depending on how I feel that day, most things. But the companies meeting the convenience needs of US consumers quickly is.

My guesses are that Tesla who seems to have figured this out opens their network up (reoccurring revenue that is mostly immune from macro economics is a powerful incentive), McDonalds and one other brick and mortar with a 5000+ locations go all in on EV charging, and EA either figured it out or goes out of business. Plus whatever new entrants hit the market. And I think that happens way faster than we imagine.
 

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Another thing that peeved me yesterday about the Florida Mall EA charging location in Orlando was that there was a constant stream of Walmart delivery EV vans using it (I believe they were Ford Transit EV?), and the Walmart drivers would just hand off the same charging stall from one delivery truck to the next, breaking in line and claiming they have a right to reserve that stall.

That’s an absolute BS. First of all, unlike most EA charging locations on Walmart parking lots, this one was a rare exception in that it was nowhere near a Walmart but rather on a side of a fancy shopping mall. Secondly, if Walmart is going electric with their delivery vans, they should build their own charging facilities and not jam up scarce public CCS chargers, especially if those chargers are not even located on Walmart property. Thirdly, who gave Walmart a right to break in line and hog a public charger stall, handing it off from one driver to next? Seriously! This is a totally fouled up experience traveling in a EV. Today, members of our sports team are driving to the beach, as there is only one game this morning, but we can’t even go to the beach because there are no chargers in the way there or back, so we can’t safely return to the hotel tonight unless we have to make that 2-hour charging detour again.

I make 10 times more an hour than I save driving an EV on a road trip and saving on gas. It’s not worth my time to waste an hour charging during a road trip trying to save $50 or making a 2-hour-long charging detour just so that I can drive an EV on a road trip. Currently, both of our vehicles are EV (a Model Y and an an ID.4). As soon as I get back to Atlanta, I’m starting a search for an ICE SUV for our road trips to replace one of them. The other one will be replaced with a Fisker Ocean (for in-town commuting only).
 

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Another thing that peeved me yesterday about the Florida Mall EA charging location in Orlando was that there was a constant stream of Walmart delivery EV vans using it (I believe they were Ford Transit EV?), and the Walmart drivers would just hand off the same charging stall from one delivery truck to the next, breaking in line and claiming they have a right to reserve that stall.

That’s an absolute BS. First of all, unlike most EA charging locations on Walmart parking lots, this one was a rare exception in that it was nowhere near a Walmart but rather on a side of a fancy shopping mall. Secondly, if Walmart is going electric with their delivery vans, they should build their own charging facilities and not jam up scarce public CCS chargers, especially if those chargers are not even located on Walmart property. Thirdly, who gave Walmart a right to break in line and hog a public charger stall, handing it off from one driver to next? Seriously! This is a totally fouled up experience traveling in a EV. Today, members of our sports team are driving to the beach, as there is only one game this morning, but we can’t even go to the beach because there are no chargers in the way there or back, so we can’t safely return to the hotel tonight unless we have to make that 2-hour charging detour again.

I make 10 times more an hour than I save driving an EV on a road trip and saving on gas. It’s not worth my time to waste an hour charging during a road trip trying to save $50 or making a 2-hour-long charging detour just so that I can drive an EV on a road trip. Currently, both of our vehicles are EV (a Model Y and an an ID.4). As soon as I get back to Atlanta, I’m starting a search for an ICE SUV for our road trips to replace one of them. The other one will be replaced with a Fisker Ocean (for in-town commuting only).
I'm really surprised Orlando doesn't have more EA locations. I looked on Plugshare and saw another EA located SW of Disney area, but the majority of non-EA CCS are only 50 kW, which is really too slow. My metro area (slightly smaller than Orlando) has 4 EA sites.
 

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I'm sorry to hear of your struggles with charging, but this is an eye-opening post. 90% of our trips are commuting or originate and end at home, but I want to be able to comfortably drive cross-country or into the US and not have to be impacted significantly by charging times/locations. If this is truly the norm for road trip experiences (ID.4 charging rate aside), it will make me rethink leaving the Tesla ecosystem. I've never had issues with road trips with my TM3. Longest trip was around 1400km. And I refuse to by another ICE vehicle.
I can tell you another side of the story. I have two VW ID4s (a FE and Pro/S) they are both 2021s (35k and 19.5K miles, respectively) and I wouldn’t hesitate to take them anywhere. As you can see, I pretty much have taken them a bunch of places. Been from central Florida to the mountains of Virginia, Baton Rouge, Gatlinburg, etc…never hesitated. As a matter of fact, the vacation to the mountains required we take both the ID4s (to fit all the travelers) and it went so smooth (and didn’t cost a dime in fuel costs). Again, different experience I wanted to share. Looking forward to our ONE hitting the driveway, but the ID4s have been great cars and have traveled flawlessly. We do not have an ICE car any longer (for over 16 months now)… ⚡🔋🚙x2 😎
 

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I can tell you another side of the story. I have two VW ID4s (a FE and Pro/S) they are both 2021s (35k and 19.5K miles, respectively) and I wouldn’t hesitate to take them anywhere. As you can see, I pretty much have taken them a bunch of places. Been from central Florida to the mountains of Virginia, Baton Rouge, Gatlinburg, etc…never hesitated. As a matter of fact, the vacation to the mountains required we take both the ID4s (to fit all the travelers) and it went so smooth (and didn’t cost a dime in fuel costs). Again, different experience I wanted to share. Looking forward to our ONE hitting the driveway, but the ID4s have been great cars and have traveled flawlessly. We do not have an ICE car any longer (for over 16 months now)… ⚡🔋🚙x2 😎
I didn’t say you couldn’t move from point A to point B in an ID.4 or any other EV. You can. This is not the same thing as traveling. The team is at the beach and we are in the hotel because we can’t take this side trip and then come back. Could we have traveled along the highway that goes by the beach? Yes, we could if we were driving south along the coast and had gotten enough charge at the previous DC charger, but it’s not an option now because we are in central florida between the two coasts.

When we travel, we want to have freedom to go anywhere the opportunity presents, not having to plan ahead of time and then having to stick to the plan because deviating from it makes you run out of fuel. That’s how you have to travel by airplane: submit a flight plan ahead of time and calculate that you have enough fuel. That’s now how people are supposed to travel by car when they go on a fun trip.

No one can accuse me of being anti-EV. I’ve been following EVs for a decade now. I test drove about a dozen EVs starting from 2015. I own two EVs and no ICEVs. I have reservations for six other EVs. Nothing pleases me more than using technology. I’m an IT engineer by trade. I know and understand minute details about EVs. And I’m saying it here that this is complete nonsense to be so restricted when traveling and not being able to drive “off the beaten path” aka too far away from a scarce system of DC chargers. I can also say that this may be unique to the US and partially to Canada. I totally believe that this is no longer an issue in Europe. But in Europe, people travel much shorter distances. An EV that has a 200-mile range at highway speeds (e.g. ID.4) may be a totally acceptable vehicle. It’s not acceptable in the US to have a range of 200 miles (on a warm day) when traveling at 75 mph. In winter, this range could decrease by 45-50%. Then what? It gets a usable range of 100 -120 miles at highway speeds? This is a joke, not a viable road trip vehicle, however totally usable for in-town driving.

I also go to Quebec every year and can attest to the fact that at least for now, there are enough DC chargers, and they are distributed more or less evenly around the areas where population centers are located. I’m not taking about more than 200 miles away from the US border. I’m talking a narrow strip of land but pretty much all the way lengthwise west to east until the road ends close to Labrador.
 

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I saw an F150 Lightning today for the first time along with Rivian R1S and Hummer EV. Hummer is massive and looks gorgeous but doesn’t look overly long. My wife said, I want that now.

The F150 is waaay too long. It’s just unnecessarily long for a family vehicle.

R1S looks much smaller than both Hummer and F150 Lightning.

They were all parked next to one another at an Electrify America charging location next to Florida Mall in Orlando, FL. There was also a Polestar, a Mach E, two EV6s and my ID.4. I had to wait in line to charge for about 20 minutes, and two out of six stalls were broken.

It is becoming an issue now. I drove from Atlanta to Orlando yesterday. There was an issue with every Electrify America location on our way. The first charging location was giving out charging for free, but it was because they lowered their charging speed to 33 kW. So, I wasted a lot of time there figuring out why the charging speed was so slow until I finally called EA and they told me they lowered the charging speed on all four stalls, including the 350 kW stalls.

The second charging location had two broken chargers out of four.

The third charging location had one out of four chargers broken, and the fourth one had 2 out of 6chargers broken. This is absolutely unacceptable.

Additionally, I’m peeved about the 2022 ID.4 charging rate being so darn slow. At around 35% SOC, the charging rate is about 90 kW. At 50% SOC, it’s about 70 kW. At 75% SOC it’s close to 60 kW. And above 80% SOC the charging curve falls off the cliff to end at 40 kW at 90% SOC.

Driving at 75 mph, my efficiency is at about 2.7 miles per kW, making the range to be about 225 miles at 100% SOC. This is just not good enough for long road trips in the US.

In Orlando there is only one EA location (which is crazy). I had to drive 30 minutes to this location from the hotel we are staying in just to get enough charge for the weekend. So, 30 minutes there, 30 minutes back, 20 minutes of waiting in line to get a working stall, and 45 minutes to charge to 90% so that my charge can last through the weekend. The Orlando EA location is 30 minutes south of our hotel. When we start heading back north on Monday, I will have to again waste about 2 hours going to the same location south of the hotel to charge the ID.4 and then drive north again past my hotel - that is to get me to the next EA location north of Orlando (on the way to Atlanta).

We have now concluded that the ID.4 is not a suitable vehicle for road trips. It’s a fine commuter EV (as long as we charge at home), but it’s crazily inconvenient to travel in.

The scarcity of non-Tesla fast chargers makes traveling in an EV a pain in the rear. We are thinking that we can no longer be a family with two EVs and we need our road-trip SUV to be a conventional ICE vehicle so that we can go wherever we want and not waste hours on charging stops and charging detours.
as the Ocean will be my first EV, please forgive my ignorance but why do you need to go to a specific EV Charging center when i know many local businesses, hotels, libraries and sports arenas have EV charge stations available? It seems that in a tourist hell like Orlando, there would be a walgreens/CVS Bank of America near your hotel that you could have used for at least a semi charge.
 
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