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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Let me preface by saying I am not knocking the Ocean. I like to post things to spur critical discussion.

This post may be premature as we don't know all the pricing details, but it's a question that keeps popping up in my head as many continue to quote the vehicle as having excellent value/features for the price. Please feel free to add to the list as I am curious what others think.

Pro
  • Longest range per segmented price category.
  • Vehicle will have the latest manufacturing tech from Magna and others.
  • Lots of new tech features included (ADAS, etc).
  • Unique vehicle design.
  • There is a significant amount of sustainable materials in the vehicle which may be more important to many than just the price.

Cons
  • Price was set years ago and others are catching up. By the time main trims hit market many other competing EVs with competing prices will as well (Lyric, Blazer EV, Equinox EV, Prologue, Ionic 7, EV9 etc.).
  • The base price gets you the vehicle, but many will be upsold on the OTA packages, increasing the price to a TBD amount.
  • Henrik has said the price of the vehicle won't change for the initial batches. But the costs of everything else has not been released. They may try to recover lost margins another way (ie. $2500 delivery...)
 

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I think the Ocean Ultra is incredible value for what you get. Looking at the competition like the Model Y, EV6, and Ioniq 5, it has advertised best range and comes with the most features as standard. Still to be seen how what the Tesla 4680 cells brings to the table in terms of efficiency and range but the Ocean looks like it's the complete package.

Another thing it comes down to is the pricing of all the packages. The Model Y Long Range is the Oceans closest competitor in my opinion and the pricing for that car has soared by $16,000 since Dec. 2020 when it was $49,990. The Extreme and the Model Y Performance are the same price and it looks like you get more with the Ocean. Granted, the advertised 0-60 with the Extreme is 3.6 seconds which is one tenth of a second off the Model Y Performance but Henrik said something 2.9 seconds in a video last week. Time will tell.
 

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I have been thinking about this a lot as someone with a BUNCH of vehicles on reservation. Here is my "Ocean versus __" mental checklist at the moment (note, all price comparisons include $7,500 tax credit where applicable).

Lyriq: same selling price as the Ocean Extreme (after tax credit), GM charges another $6,000 in monthly subscription fees for super cruise over the first 10 years (I hate subscriptions). Ocean performance is substantially better, has AWD vs RWD, range is longer, charging speed should be comparable or a bit better. On the subjective stuff I like the Ocean. This is a clear win for Fisker IMO.
Model Y AWD LR: Ocean Extreme is $4k less expensive, slightly better performance, ~10% better range, Tesla charges $6k for EAP but $0 for standard AP, charging time will almost certainly be better in the Tesla and SC network is a big plus. On the subjective stuff I like the Ocean and the Extreme comes with lots of bells and whistles. Compared to the Ultra, the MY is a solid $24k more expensive with less range and performance. Clear win for Ocean.
Kia/Hyundai EV6/Ioniq5: The Korean vehicles are priced comparably to the Ultra and while the Hyundai/Kia are great, they are not in the same class in terms of performance and range. Long range means low performance and RWD. Better performance and AWD means shorter range. You cannot have both. On other dimensions, including charging speed, Kia/Hyundai are excellent. Step up to the extreme and you are pushing a big price difference, but if you are shopping Kia/Hyundai you are probably looking at the Ultra which is a clear winner IMO.
Ariya/ID.4/Toyota/Subaru/Bolt EUV: These are not on par for range, performance, charging. To me, N/A, as I would not buy any of them due to the range/charging constraints, but worth noting that the Nissan top-level trim (with only 285 miles of range and 130kw charging and slow 7.2 0-60) is priced higher than the Ultra!
Rivian R1S: This is a tough one. If you have the grandfathered pricing then it is only $7k more than the Ocean Extreme for a monster performance vehicle. Still, R1S is an energy hog and while the charging rate is good the charging speed is not great due to its huge battery. If you do not have the grandfathered pricing then this is in Model X / BMW territory on price and not really a comparable. This is the most difficult for me. (I really do not need an R1S but it is so freaking cool!)

TBD
Blazer SS: This is likely to be the most direct Ocean competitor. It gets revealed next week. We will see...but it will be an AWD performance oriented vehicle. I needs to get at least 310 miles of range in that configuration to be worth considering vs the Ocean IMO.

Forgot to Add...
Polestar 3: The company says this should have a range comparable to the Ocean Extreme (372 vs 391 on WLTP cycle). Polestar 2 has a pretty below average charging rate so not sure is this one will be an improvement or not, but it is the first Polestar made outside of China (in US) and is supposed to debut in October. It should be priced pretty comparably to the Ocean based on the sedan pricing. As long as they get the range and charging right, Polestar makes some nice vehicles just like the other Geely companies (Volvo, Lynn & Co., Lotus, etc.).

For right now, the Ocean is the best value. The EV9/Ioniq 7 should offer more space, better charging, far less performance, at a similar price. The Prologue will be an uglier, lower performance versions of the Blazer. Uninteresting to me. Your preferences may be different, of course!
 

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@BayouCityBob

What a very good summary of the Pro/Con of Fisker Ocean to other BEV's
on the market

Compared to the Ultra, the MY is a solid $24k more expensive with less range and performance. Clear win for Ocean.
BULLSEYE!
Many Fisker Ultra Reservation Holders will most certainly compare it to the Tesla Y
A clear WIN for Fisker with the $24,000 savings

P.S. Personally, the cherry on top of the cake will be the access to the Tesla SC network, possibly by the end of this year 2022!
 
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I have been thinking about this a lot as someone with a BUNCH of vehicles on reservation. Here is my "Ocean versus __" mental checklist at the moment (note, all price comparisons include $7,500 tax credit where applicable).

Lyriq: same selling price as the Ocean Extreme (after tax credit), GM charges another $6,000 in monthly subscription fees for super cruise over the first 10 years (I hate subscriptions). Ocean performance is substantially better, has AWD vs RWD, range is longer, charging speed should be comparable or a bit better. On the subjective stuff I like the Ocean. This is a clear win for Fisker IMO.
Model Y AWD LR: Ocean Extreme is $4k less expensive, slightly better performance, ~10% better range, Tesla charges $6k for EAP but $0 for standard AP, charging time will almost certainly be better in the Tesla and SC network is a big plus. On the subjective stuff I like the Ocean and the Extreme comes with lots of bells and whistles. Compared to the Ultra, the MY is a solid $24k more expensive with less range and performance. Clear win for Ocean.
Kia/Hyundai EV6/Ioniq5: The Korean vehicles are priced comparably to the Ultra and while the Hyundai/Kia are great, they are not in the same class in terms of performance and range. Long range means low performance and RWD. Better performance and AWD means shorter range. You cannot have both. On other dimensions, including charging speed, Kia/Hyundai are excellent. Step up to the extreme and you are pushing a big price difference, but if you are shopping Kia/Hyundai you are probably looking at the Ultra which is a clear winner IMO.
Ariya/ID.4/Toyota/Subaru/Bolt EUV: These are not on par for range, performance, charging. To me, N/A, as I would not buy any of them due to the range/charging constraints, but worth noting that the Nissan top-level trim (with only 285 miles of range and 130kw charging and slow 7.2 0-60) is priced higher than the Ultra!
Rivian R1S: This is a tough one. If you have the grandfathered pricing then it is only $7k more than the Ocean Extreme for a monster performance vehicle. Still, R1S is an energy hog and while the charging rate is good the charging speed is not great due to its huge battery. If you do not have the grandfathered pricing then this is in Model X / BMW territory on price and not really a comparable. This is the most difficult for me. (I really do not need an R1S but it is so freaking cool!)

TBD
Blazer SS: This is likely to be the most direct Ocean competitor. It gets revealed next week. We will see...but it will be an AWD performance oriented vehicle. I needs to get at least 310 miles of range in that configuration to be worth considering vs the Ocean IMO.

For right now, the Ocean is the best value. The EV9/Ioniq 7 should offer more space, better charging, far less performance, at a similar price. The Prologue will be an uglier, lower performance versions of the Blazer. Uninteresting to me. Your preferences may be different, of course!
This comparison is pretty spot on. The one thing you can’t get with any of these vehicles is a large opening panoramic roof. Some if them have a smaller opening roof or a fixed glass roof but not at 50k or less even.
 

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@HotIce
I think the Ocean Ultra is incredible value for what you get.
Looking at the competition like the Model Y, EV6, and Ioniq 5,
it has advertised best range and comes with the most features as standard.
Another Bullseye to the target!
The overall value with all the packed standard equipment, especially the Ultra model,
hits the value/performance/standard equipment parameters

The remaining tangible item is the Optionally Equipment pricing....
Hopefully Fisker Inc will treat its Reservation Holders with a soft touch.
 
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I consider the OTA update packages a positive, not a negative. If you don't want them at purchase, you can change your mind and get them later. Superior to me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
@BayouCityBob You Americans and you're $7,500 tax credit. We Canadians are seething with envy North of the border.

You offer very fair comparisons. It is a bit different for me to compare in Canada as some of the major manufacturers price according to the market in Canada vs the approx. CAD equivalent like Fisker/Tesla/Rivian. In each of those latter cases the Ocean is the clear winner.

Ionic 5/ EV6
The Ionic 5 fully spec'd comes in at ~59K. 5K Cheaper than the Ocean Ultra. The Ocean definitely has the Ionic 5 on power and range, but the Ionic also has a few features the Ocean doesn't either such as the 800V charging architecture. Not to mention most probably live within 50km (Canadian remember :) of a dealer that could service said vehicle. This would be similar with the EV6 as well.

Lyric
- The base AWD Lyric in Canada is only 70K. Besides the serviceability here, the Ultra still would have the Lyric in most cases.

Blazer EV / Prologue
- I expect the CAD price for the SS AWD version to be around 60K but who knows. I think we can ascertain it will be a bit under the Lyric. The Ocean Ultra will likely have more features and have better styling for sure.

Ariya/ID.4/Toyota/Subaru/Bolt EUV
- Agreed, I don't see any of these as direct competitors unless comparing to the sport model.

Tesla
- Agree the win is for the Ocean here, at any trim. Tough for me to be objective here as I think these are very much overpriced, which is why I wouldn't purchase one. Others see the value and to each their own. Personally, I think Tesla's only hold their value due to their current grip on the market which enables them to charge a higher price. That and the longer warranty periods. Once other EVs hit the market and pricing gets more competitive I don't think you will see the same value being retained.

Rivian R1S
- I think the options are comparable to the extreme and even though the R1S is an energy hog, if I had the option between the Extreme and the R1S it would be R1S for me every time. But I value storage and towing more than range and a sun roof.. I would sacrifice the range for that sweet sweet ride. Alas my wallet disagrees with me. For best value its still likely the Extreme.
 

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@BayouCityBob You Americans and you're $7,500 tax credit. We Canadians are seething with envy North of the border.
Blazer EV / Prologue
- I expect the CAD price for the SS AWD version to be around 60K but who knows. I think we can ascertain it will be a bit under the Lyric. The Ocean Ultra will likely have more features and have better styling for sure.
I have a bold prediction: I think the Blazer SS will come in just under $70k US when it is revealed on the 18th. I think it will start in the mid 40s but the launch edition SS performance version will be AWD, 0-60 in ~3.5 seconds, and a 330 mile range. IOW, I think they will do with the Blazer what they are doing with the Silverado, a very high-priced version for launch. With Lyriq they did the opposite: launching the entry-level RWD.

@BayouCityBob You Americans and you're $7,500 tax credit. We Canadians are seething with envy North of the border.
Rivian R1S
- I think the options are comparable to the extreme and even though the R1S is an energy hog, if I had the option between the Extreme and the R1S it would be R1S for me every time. But I value storage and towing more than range and a sun roof.. I would sacrifice the range for that sweet sweet ride. Alas my wallet disagrees with me. For best value its still likely the Extreme.
"I would sacrifice the range for that sweet sweet ride." I know, I know! The R1S I have on order won't show up until mid-to-late next year but dang! it is a beautiful machine. I got my reservation in Nov 2021 so the grandfathered price on the fully-loaded Adventure is $75,500 ($68,000 with tax credit ... not to rub salt in the wound). So the conversation in my head goes like this "I want an R1S. You don't need an R1S. Yes, but it can go off-road like a monster. Fine but you never drive off-road. Yes, but what if we have the Zombie Apocalypse? And It is Houston so what about floods. Yes, but you really do not need an R1S. But I want an R1S..." And so it goes and will continue until next spring/summer/fall.
 
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I have been thinking about this a lot as someone with a BUNCH of vehicles on reservation. Here is my "Ocean versus __" mental checklist at the moment (note, all price comparisons include $7,500 tax credit where applicable).

Lyriq: same selling price as the Ocean Extreme (after tax credit), GM charges another $6,000 in monthly subscription fees for super cruise over the first 10 years (I hate subscriptions). Ocean performance is substantially better, has AWD vs RWD, range is longer, charging speed should be comparable or a bit better. On the subjective stuff I like the Ocean. This is a clear win for Fisker IMO.
Model Y AWD LR: Ocean Extreme is $4k less expensive, slightly better performance, ~10% better range, Tesla charges $6k for EAP but $0 for standard AP, charging time will almost certainly be better in the Tesla and SC network is a big plus. On the subjective stuff I like the Ocean and the Extreme comes with lots of bells and whistles. Compared to the Ultra, the MY is a solid $24k more expensive with less range and performance. Clear win for Ocean.
Kia/Hyundai EV6/Ioniq5: The Korean vehicles are priced comparably to the Ultra and while the Hyundai/Kia are great, they are not in the same class in terms of performance and range. Long range means low performance and RWD. Better performance and AWD means shorter range. You cannot have both. On other dimensions, including charging speed, Kia/Hyundai are excellent. Step up to the extreme and you are pushing a big price difference, but if you are shopping Kia/Hyundai you are probably looking at the Ultra which is a clear winner IMO.
Ariya/ID.4/Toyota/Subaru/Bolt EUV: These are not on par for range, performance, charging. To me, N/A, as I would not buy any of them due to the range/charging constraints, but worth noting that the Nissan top-level trim (with only 285 miles of range and 130kw charging and slow 7.2 0-60) is priced higher than the Ultra!
Rivian R1S: This is a tough one. If you have the grandfathered pricing then it is only $7k more than the Ocean Extreme for a monster performance vehicle. Still, R1S is an energy hog and while the charging rate is good the charging speed is not great due to its huge battery. If you do not have the grandfathered pricing then this is in Model X / BMW territory on price and not really a comparable. This is the most difficult for me. (I really do not need an R1S but it is so freaking cool!)

TBD
Blazer SS: This is likely to be the most direct Ocean competitor. It gets revealed next week. We will see...but it will be an AWD performance oriented vehicle. I needs to get at least 310 miles of range in that configuration to be worth considering vs the Ocean IMO.

For right now, the Ocean is the best value. The EV9/Ioniq 7 should offer more space, better charging, far less performance, at a similar price. The Prologue will be an uglier, lower performance versions of the Blazer. Uninteresting to me. Your preferences may be different, of course!
Thanks for the write-up. Well done.

Question. Where did you get the price of the fees for GM's Super Cruise? All I have seen is that it's a $25 per month fee if you want to continue it after the 2 or 3 year free package expires. And by my math that's only $3000. Still cheaper than a set of Scandinavian winter rated tires for the Ocean. 🤣
 

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Thanks for the write-up. Well done.

Question. Where did you get the price of the fees for GM's Super Cruise? All I have seen is that it's a $25 per month fee if you want to continue it after the 2 or 3 year free package expires. And by my math that's only $3000. Still cheaper than a set of Scandinavian winter rated tires for the Ocean. 🤣
You also have to buy an OnStar subscription in order for it to work. That costs a minimum of $25 a month extra (for the connected services plan) and up to $50 a month. So it is $50 - $75 a mo for supercruise and onstar. I assumed the low end.
 

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You also have to buy an OnStar subscription in order for it to work. That costs a minimum of $25 a month extra (for the connected services plan) and up to $50 a month. So it is $50 - $75 a mo for supercruise and onstar. I assumed the low end.
I'm pretty sure you get Supercruise for three years before you have to buy the subscription. On my Volt, I had Onstar for three years without paying for it.
 

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I'm pretty sure you get Supercruise for three years before you have to buy the subscription. On my Volt, I had Onstar for three years without paying for it.
You may be right. For my way of thinking, SuperCruise and Tesla's EAP are the same price at around $6k for the life of the vehicle. One is subscription one is up-front. Vehicle will last 20 years. You probably take a bigger hit on the Tesla if you resell after 5 years and pay a bit more long-term with the GM. Others may view it differently. I am assuming (but do not know) that the Fisker system will be all-in for life of vehicle at least for the Ones.
 

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I have a bold prediction: I think the Blazer SS will come in just under $70k US when it is revealed on the 18th. I think it will start in the mid 40s but the launch edition SS performance version will be AWD, 0-60 in ~3.5 seconds, and a 330 mile range. IOW, I think they will do with the Blazer what they are doing with the Silverado, a very high-priced version for launch. With Lyriq they did the opposite: launching the entry-level RWD.



"I would sacrifice the range for that sweet sweet ride." I know, I know! The R1S I have on order won't show up until mid-to-late next year but dang! it is a beautiful machine. I got my reservation in Nov 2021 so the grandfathered price on the fully-loaded Adventure is $75,500 ($68,000 with tax credit ... not to rub salt in the wound). So the conversation in my head goes like this "I want an R1S. You don't need an R1S. Yes, but it can go off-road like a monster. Fine but you never drive off-road. Yes, but what if we have the Zombie Apocalypse? And It is Houston so what about floods. Yes, but you really do not need an R1S. But I want an R1S..." And so it goes and will continue until next spring/summer/fall.
You and I have the same devil whispering in our ears. HAHA
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
You may be right. For my way of thinking, SuperCruise and Tesla's EAP are the same price at around $6k for the life of the vehicle. One is subscription one is up-front. Vehicle will last 20 years. You probably take a bigger hit on the Tesla if you resell after 5 years and pay a bit more long-term with the GM. Others may view it differently. I am assuming (but do not know) that the Fisker system will be all-in for life of vehicle at least for the Ones.
I hope your wrong haha. I have a reservation on a chance to purchase the future blazer. But if it's over 60k it will be a non starter. With destination tow package and 12% tax it will turn into over a 70k vehicle at that price alone. I never thought I would buy over a 50k vehicle (not a car guy) and here I am looking at 20k over that since I really want an ev haha. Random question, what taxes do you guys usually expect to pay in the US on new vehicles?
 

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I hope your wrong haha. I have a reservation on a chance to purchase the future blazer. But if it's over 60k it will be a non starter. With destination tow package and 12% tax it will turn into over a 70k vehicle at that price alone. I never thought I would buy over a 50k vehicle (not a car guy) and here I am looking at 20k over that since I really want an ev haha. Random question, what taxes do you guys usually expect to pay in the US on new vehicles?
Sales tax varies by state.

 

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"I would sacrifice the range for that sweet sweet ride." I know, I know! The R1S I have on order won't show up until mid-to-late next year but dang! it is a beautiful machine. I got my reservation in Nov 2021 so the grandfathered price on the fully-loaded Adventure is $75,500 ($68,000 with tax credit ... not to rub salt in the wound). So the conversation in my head goes like this "I want an R1S. You don't need an R1S. Yes, but it can go off-road like a monster. Fine but you never drive off-road. Yes, but what if we have the Zombie Apocalypse? And It is Houston so what about floods. Yes, but you really do not need an R1S. But I want an R1S..." And so it goes and will continue until next spring/summer/fall.
I have the same conversations in my head - just replace Los Angeles for Houston and earthquakes for floods.

I am seeing the R1S in person next week at the Venice Hub (no test drive yet). I just have to be careful not to drool on the vegan leather.
 

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I have the same conversations in my head - just replace Los Angeles for Houston and earthquakes for floods.

I am seeing the R1S in person next week at the Venice Hub (no test drive yet). I just have to be careful not to drool on the vegan leather.
Okay, we expect a report back after Venice! The reviews came out today (which I wasted hours watching) and they were all excellent. At least I have time to decide. I am a March Ocean reservation. If they get to me this Friday on the next wave of invites, they are in serious trouble. My reservation here is in the mid 30,000s. OTOH I am a Nov '21 reservation holder for the R1S so I definitely have some time to decide.
 

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You may be right. For my way of thinking, SuperCruise and Tesla's EAP are the same price at around $6k for the life of the vehicle. One is subscription one is up-front. Vehicle will last 20 years. You probably take a bigger hit on the Tesla if you resell after 5 years and pay a bit more long-term with the GM. Others may view it differently. I am assuming (but do not know) that the Fisker system will be all-in for life of vehicle at least for the Ones.
But the Ocean won't be self-driving like GM's Super Cruise offers. At least not up front. And it's only a subscription if you want to pay for it. All the other ADAS features are in the vehicle if so selected at purchase. You're only paying for the self-driving capability. Also, (I'll have to clarify this and will soon) I think Super Cruise is a standalone package independent from OnStar the way the site described it. I could be wrong though. It's just not 100% clear to me. Either way, it's free for the first 3 years.
 
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