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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all.
5,000 non-refundable is a big ask, but her is my "why". Tesla....while I love them, they all look the darn same and the federal tax credit is gone. The One has a rear screen, from which I understand is only available on the Plaid's or very high end rigs. I am putting my faith in no build quality issues. California mode in San Diego just sounds amazing. Not looking to resale, but hoping that if I do, having a limited edition always seems to be a good idea. Sustainable is pretty cool, and I appreciate they aren't building more factories, have a limited carbon footprint, and use recycled material.

So that is my why. What's yours?

v/r
Future "One" owner!
 

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We have determined this is our time to go EV.
We love our 15 Murano and wanted the Ariya but then tripped over the Ocean and was swept away!
My only criteria in one vehicle to the next is upgrades and no compremises.
The more we looked into this vehicle, the more we were convinced it's the car we never knew we wanted.
The sustainabilty is a major draw for me after seeing the rapid healing to our environment during the time of our lockdowns.
Just the acted of us all not driving started a healing process that was undeniable!
This car starts a revolution and I am exstatic to be part of it!

Not to mention, this thing is COOL!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
We have determined this is our time to go EV.
We love our 15 Murano and wanted the Ariya but then tripped over the Ocean and was swept away!
My only criteria in one vehicle to the next is upgrades and no compremises.
The more we looked into this vehicle, the more we were convinced it's the car we never knew we wanted.
The sustainabilty is a major draw for me after seeing the rapid healing to our environment during the time of our lockdowns.
Just the acted of us all not driving started a healing process that was undeniable!
This car starts a revolution and I am exstatic to be part of it!

Not to mention, this thing is COOL!
More of my "why's" that I forgot and you reminded me of: We got solar, so I agree, time to get an EV. Concur with how amazing it was to see our Earth heal itself so quickly (or at least start to).
 

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I think that as Tesla gets more competition, sooner or later they're going to have to address their quality control and customer service issues. They're not the only game in town anymore, and more is coming.
It's a shame because they are an innovative company and the product is good. The customer experience is going to become more and more important as electric cars become the norm and batteries that last millions of miles and consumers start holding onto cars longer because the car can be improved via OTA with the newest features.

It is very important for Fisker to provide a seamless delivery and service experience or people will just flock back to what they know and trust and in this case, it's Tesla.
 

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It's a shame because they are an innovative company and the product is good. The customer experience is going to become more and more important as electric cars become the norm and batteries that last millions of miles and consumers start holding onto cars longer because the car can be improved via OTA with the newest features.

It is very important for Fisker to provide a seamless delivery and service experience or people will just flock back to what they know and trust and in this case, it's Tesla.
I agree the motors and batteries are good, great, breakthrough, state of the art at the time (Lucid now!) and the brand changed an industry. If only Elon had let Magna design and build the rest of the car! We diverge greatly on assessing the cars they wrapped around those and I felt relieved to get my Model 3 deposit back when I saw what was rolling out of the so-called assembly plant (or assembly parking lot?). If Fisker disappoints, I would not expect a "reverse course" to Tesla. By then, the range of choices from known brands will be more extensive and growing. Ford, Chevy, Toyota, Subaru, Hyundai, Kia, Genesis, Jeep, Volvo, Polestar, BMW, MB, etc. are or will be on the field shortly. I could never imagine considering Tesla for product quality alone.
 

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I agree the motors and batteries are good, great, breakthrough, state of the art at the time (Lucid now!) and the brand changed an industry. If only Elon had let Magna design and build the rest of the car! We diverge greatly on assessing the cars they wrapped around those and I felt relieved to get my Model 3 deposit back when I saw what was rolling out of the so-called assembly plant (or assembly parking lot?). If Fisker disappoints, I would not expect a "reverse course" to Tesla. By then, the range of choices from known brands will be more extensive and growing. Ford, Chevy, Toyota, Subaru, Hyundai, Kia, Genesis, Jeep, Volvo, Polestar, BMW, MB, etc. are or will be on the field shortly. I could never imagine considering Tesla for product quality alone.
If they had relied on a third-party company, navigating the current supply shortage would have been a lot harder. I get that they want to be vertically integrated but at what cost are you willing to go? The success of any company is reliant on bringing customers back and bringing on new customers. Tesla hasn't had to spend a dollar on advertising which is amazing, but I don't know how many S-Class owners will tell their friends to go buy a Model S after having to take their brand new $120,000 Model S in for service because body panels or interior trim pieces were misaligned. We're already seeing MB and BMW come into the premium segment and while the range isn't as great and the motors aren't as efficient and weight a bajillion pounds at the moment, but customers will put up with those shortcomings in my opinion. Having another manufacturer like Fisker that's full speed ahead on electric vehicles unlike the legacy companies which are taking their sweet little time transitioning was very much needed. It's going to take at least another three to four years for a behemoth like Tesla to feel any kind of heat, but it is a step in the right direction.

I think the majority of the problem stems from the fact that even though the fit and finish and QC are abysmal, they're still selling like hotcakes. I honestly believe that's why Tesla doesn't have a loaner fleet. That loaner car can be money on the company's books.

I commend Tesla for being so vertically integrated. No other automotive manufacturer can touch the system that Tesla has in place right now or their profit margins. They're leagues ahead of anyone in terms of efficiency and technology. The 4680 cells are a great step forward.
 

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If they had relied on a third-party company, navigating the current supply shortage would have been a lot harder. I get that they want to be vertically integrated but at what cost are you willing to go? The success of any company is reliant on bringing customers back and bringing on new customers. Tesla hasn't had to spend a dollar on advertising which is amazing, but I don't know how many S-Class owners will tell their friends to go buy a Model S after having to take their brand new $120,000 Model S in for service because body panels or interior trim pieces were misaligned. We're already seeing MB and BMW come into the premium segment and while the range isn't as great and the motors aren't as efficient and weight a bajillion pounds at the moment, but customers will put up with those shortcomings in my opinion. Having another manufacturer like Fisker that's full speed ahead on electric vehicles unlike the legacy companies which are taking their sweet little time transitioning was very much needed. It's going to take at least another three to four years for a behemoth like Tesla to feel any kind of heat, but it is a step in the right direction.

I think the majority of the problem stems from the fact that even though the fit and finish and QC are abysmal, they're still selling like hotcakes. I honestly believe that's why Tesla doesn't have a loaner fleet. That loaner car can be money on the company's books.

I commend Tesla for being so vertically integrated. No other automotive manufacturer can touch the system that Tesla has in place right now or their profit margins. They're leagues ahead of anyone in terms of efficiency and technology. The 4680 cells are a great step forward.
Vertical integration can be a very effective strategy when operating within one's core competency. Batteries, motors, perhaps other electronics, such as chips, would all have fallen under that umbrella. That also would have addressed some of the electronic supply shortage issues under the unforeseeable Covid consequences. My point is that Elon, despite sales success, stumbled badly on objective measures of designing and manufacturing high quality automobiles, due to hubris and/or ignorance of alternatives. Essentially having the market to himself, he did do well with sales, and there are benefits of some owners less concerned with quality than being "cool" or having some form of ADAS being loyal to the brand. But, history is replete with examples of first movers who seemed to own the category but ultimately were overrun by progress, superior alternatives, and not having a sufficiently strong USP to survive. For those Tesla buyers who value quality over some other attributes, among others seeking a change, I expect to see defections increase over the next few years. (EDIT: Not sure why the link reads as it does, but it goes to a Bloomberg article about Tesla future market share. I tried the link and it worked when tested.)

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Vertical integration can be a very effective strategy when operating within one's core competency. Batteries, motors, perhaps other electronics, such as chips, would all have fallen under that umbrella. That also would have addressed some of the electronic supply shortage issues under the unforeseeable Covid consequences. My point is that Elon, despite sales success, stumbled badly on objective measures of designing and manufacturing high quality automobiles, due to hubris and/or ignorance of alternatives. Essentially having the market to himself, he did do well with sales, and there are benefits of some owners less concerned with quality than being "cool" or having some form of ADAS being loyal to the brand. But, history is replete with examples of first movers who seemed to own the category but ultimately were overrun by progress, superior alternatives, and not having a sufficiently strong USP to survive. For those Tesla buyers who value quality over some other attributes, among others seeking a change, I expect to see defections increase over the next few years. (EDIT: Not sure why the link reads as it does, but it goes to a Bloomberg article about Tesla future market share. I tried the link and it worked when tested.)

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Very well said. I agree 1000%.
 

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Elon's priority was to get out of "Production Hell" because the company was on the verge of going bankrupt so the quality took a hit!!! Unfortunately little has been done to improve it, they seem to be concentrating on meeting the high demand always at the expense of quality and the after-sales service is barely up to the task. I imagine Tesla's huge debt weighs heavily in the balance, quality or quantity?
Following Elon's declarations that the factories (Texas/Germany) are losing money they have chosen the quantity!
 

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Elon's priority was to get out of "Production Hell" because the company was on the verge of going bankrupt so the quality took a hit!!! Unfortunately little has been done to improve it, they seem to be concentrating on meeting the high demand always at the expense of quality and the after-sales service is barely up to the task. I imagine Tesla's huge debt weighs heavily in the balance, quality or quantity?
Following Elon's declarations that the factories (Texas/Germany) are losing money they have chosen the quantity!
Tesla does not have huge debt. While Musk always goes on about their debt, their long term debt is under $10b compared to GM at $73b and Ford at $103b. It was a different story in 2018 when they did not have revenue compared to today but they have been paying it down and they have revenue now. The issue of meeting high demand is still an issue though. Texas & Germany are both new factories and neither have ramped up yet so naturally they will lose money.
 

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Tesla does not have huge debt. While Musk always goes on about their debt, their long term debt is under $10b compared to GM at $73b and Ford at $103b. It was a different story in 2018 when they did not have revenue compared to today but they have been paying it down and they have revenue now. The issue of meeting high demand is still an issue though. Texas & Germany are both new factories and neither have ramped up yet so naturally they will lose money.
Ford has only $24 billion debt. The remainder is inhouse car loans. Ford makes a huge profit on the loans. Further it has $29 billion cash.
 

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Ford has only $24 billion debt. The remainder is inhouse car loans. Ford makes a huge profit on the loans. Further it has $29 billion cash.
I probably shouldn't have used Clean Technica for financial analysis :). I took a look at Ford's financials and they do only have $17b in Long Term debt excluding Ford Credit, however, half of the $21b in cash they have is from Ford Credit as well.
 
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