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I see on Facebook and other social media the "Nay-Sayers" out there. They say that the initial production runs will be plagued with problems, as this is often the case with new vehicles. They feel that there won't be enough ability to repair the vehicles, and this will cause the company to sink "like Fisker's first company"....

Thoughts?
 

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Yes, if nothing else, Facebook is always known for the collection of production experts that like to spread their vast knowledge through the comment sections.

The Ocean is a new product. Any new assembly line, regardless of the experience of the manufacturer, is bound to run into some initial issues. Magna has already built 50+ pre-production cars to work through any preliminary issues they can resolve but more are bound to show up as production ramps up.

Their "first" company failed due to their battery supplier BK and not being able to supply batteries which halted the Karma's production. They had limited funding and was not able to survive the stoppage (as well as the Hurricane Sandy aftermath). Fisker's largest suppliers are Magna & CATL - both are sound companies with minimal risk of not being able to deliver on Fisker's contract.
 

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My thoughts:

It is my hope that the era of non-evidence based conclusions are coming to a close for our society.

First run issues could arise as we already know without input from the grand masters of FB.
A seasoned manufacturer is very likely to correct line flaws (in my un-professional opinion).

One profound nugget I ran across on FB, "don't ever submerge the battery and prepare for fires".
Of course, as we all know, combustion engines drive just fine under water and never catch fire.

Just hurry up SOP. The crazy and weird are expanding bigly.
 

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Magna bro. Magna.
That is all.
Fiskers 'Ace in the sleeve'. A lot of the people that say Fisker is going to have problems probably hold some kind of short position in the company. Boy are they in for a rude awakening. People are about to lose A LOT of money.

My thoughts:

It is my hope that the era of non-evidence based conclusions are coming to a close for our society.

First run issues could arise as we already know without input from the grand masters of FB.
A seasoned manufacturer is very likely to correct line flaws (in my un-professional opinion).

One profound nugget I ran across on FB, "don't ever submerge the battery and prepare for fires".
Of course, as we all know, combustion engines drive just fine under water and never catch fire.

Just hurry up SOP. The crazy and weird are expanding bigly.
God, I hope so but with so many non-science believers, I unfortunately don't think that's going to happen. We can't get people to believe in climate change, let alone wear masks due to a global pandemic. It kind of feels like the non-evidence-based group is actually growing.
 

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Fiskers 'Ace in the sleeve'. A lot of the people that say Fisker is going to have problems probably hold some kind of short position in the company. Boy are they in for a rude awakening. People are about to lose A LOT of money.



God, I hope so but with so many non-science believers, I unfortunately don't think that's going to happen. We can't get people to believe in climate change, let alone wear masks due to a global pandemic. It kind of feels like the non-evidence-based group is actually growing.
Society today. Its evolution of the human kind. It's mainly due to technology/internet and social media.

Humans are complex and baffling.

Someone once said, "it's easier to fool a man than convince him he's been fooled"

At the same time we have to be careful of labelling everyone. I would be considered a naysayer, Infact in the fiskerati forum some accused me of FUD and being some other dude too. Just because we had a different view.

I have NO DOUBT FISKER WILL HAVE PROBLEMS. It would be possible not to. What is important is they have a solid partner and how reactive they are to problems that occur. I have made many criticisms about them and HF but then realised HF is not Fisker, so cannot blame him on everything. Just as I want him to perfect everything I also want him to delegate to experts as well. I do think some of their notices, info put out, Comms etc has been poor but then if I compare with others they probably not bad. I suspect it's the internet instant need for info that I'm not getting every second that makes me feel like that.

I too hope shorters get burnt as I do want this company to succeed. I think they are more likely but will always have "enemies" undermining them. It's a cut throat business and let's face it some very powerful players have put their money into competitors.

As for evidence and actions.... I used to work with lung cancer patients. See them come in, tell them diagnosis, help them through their diagnosis and many with death. Used to work with a top doc doing this. One day I see that top doc smoking. I got shocked. I asked them why are they smoking given the field we are in and what we see day in day out? They said... My choice.!

Rational explanation don't always mean much!

T
 

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I see on Facebook and other social media the "Nay-Sayers" out there. They say that the initial production runs will be plagued with problems, as this is often the case with new vehicles. They feel that there won't be enough ability to repair the vehicles, and this will cause the company to sink "like Fisker's first company"....

Thoughts?
Here are my thoughts:
This is a development of human nature. It is not cool to bet on the underdog anymore. It has become commonplace to try and make people feel stupid for taking a chance. With the increased use of social media, it is really easy to sound like an armchair-expert. The line of fact and fiction is blurred by how we consume information now. Most importantly, the vocal few can be heard in this platform. Most people do not bother to try and correct mis-information. Loud echo-chambers can form from dozens of internet voices.

Lastly, regarding something like Fisker, they are right, anyone that is purchasing a brand new vehicle is taking a chance. Even legacy car makers known for their quality can run aground (just look at the snafu that Toyota has on their hands with their first EV). But instead of stating that, it is more of a campaign to be right about it before it happens. If they are right, they get some sort of weird joy out of it and they get to be smug and indignant. If they are wrong, we will never notice and they will move on to the next topic to be loud and try and predict.

These people are not Nostrodamus, they are just trolls. Stay off their bridge and never ever ever feed them.
 

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I am a Fisker proponent. I want the Ocean and subsequent vehicles to do well. That being said, I think from a hardware perspective the Ocean will be sound. From a software perspective, I think there will be a fair number of bugs that will have to be fixed over time. Which as long as the hardware still functions properly and updates aren't few and far between, I am OK with that. I think most would be. People can't expect a brand new product to be perfect, or they will often be disappointed.
 

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Always very true with new software.
Seems to me I remember HF saying that not all functionality will be available at delivery and will follow in following months through OTA updates.
I'm sure after delivery and that being the case, there will be amnesia of all of that LOL
 

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. People can't expect a brand new product to be perfect, or they will often be disappointed.
The Ocean is a new product. Any new assembly line, regardless of the experience of the manufacturer, is bound to run into some initial issues

of course. but it seems like people who point this out, are called "nay-sayers"......
 

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of course. but it seems like people who point this out, are called "nay-sayers"......
I think the point being made are people labelled above as 'nay-sayers' like to write-off the entire vehicle due to the fact there will be expected problems. These are the type of people probably spending 50-60K on a M3 vs 40-50K three years ago. You pay a price to wait for the product to evolve. The people who can admit there will be flaws, but are willing to deal with them in the hopes of acquiring a good product are called first-adopters and those are the people Fisker has to cater to.
 

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I am a Fisker proponent. I want the Ocean and subsequent vehicles to do well. That being said, I think from a hardware perspective the Ocean will be sound. From a software perspective, I think there will be a fair number of bugs that will have to be fixed over time. Which as long as the hardware still functions properly and updates aren't few and far between, I am OK with that. I think most would be. People can't expect a brand new product to be perfect, or they will often be disappointed.
I am completely confident that by February this forum will be filled with threads about various recurring issues with the initial vehicles. I have seen it happen on every new vehicle launch with which I have been involved or which I have followed. You saw it on the i-Pace forum from back in the day (software was horrible and number out hardware issues) so magna vehicles are certainly not immune, you see it on Rivian, it was on the Tesla forums out the wazoo during the Model 3 launch. The F150 Lightning forum has plenty of threads (e.g. "OEM running Boards Delaminating" and "AC Controls Horrible and Dangerous"). Oh, and don't even get started on the Mach-E forum with the dreaded "rear axle diff comm fault" and the 12V battery problems. Etc.

Modern vehicles are insanely complex machines and early production models have issues. They always have issues. And early adopters are hyper-critical on things like panel gap consistency, paint blemishes, etc. The gnashing of teeth will begin in earnest in late January. :)
 

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Here are my thoughts:
This is a development of human nature. It is not cool to bet on the underdog anymore. It has become commonplace to try and make people feel stupid for taking a chance. With the increased use of social media, it is really easy to sound like an armchair-expert. The line of fact and fiction is blurred by how we consume information now. Most importantly, the vocal few can be heard in this platform. Most people do not bother to try and correct mis-information. Loud echo-chambers can form from dozens of internet voices.

Lastly, regarding something like Fisker, they are right, anyone that is purchasing a brand new vehicle is taking a chance. Even legacy car makers known for their quality can run aground (just look at the snafu that Toyota has on their hands with their first EV). But instead of stating that, it is more of a campaign to be right about it before it happens. If they are right, they get some sort of weird joy out of it and they get to be smug and indignant. If they are wrong, we will never notice and they will move on to the next topic to be loud and try and predict.

These people are not Nostrodamus, they are just trolls. Stay off their bridge and never ever ever feed them.
Well said👍
 

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of course. but it seems like people who point this out, are called "nay-sayers"......
No, hiccups and bumps are expected. Every manufacturer goes through it. It's the ones that constantly keep rambling about it when the product hasn't even launched yet and have no basis or evidence to backup the claims they are making that are the "nay-sayers."

This process is going to take some time to iron out and that just comes with the territory of where Fisker is at right now. Shoot, it's been a decade plus and apparently Tesla can't figure it out either. If a company that's been doing it for 10 years can't figure it out, why do we have the expectation for a company that's launching to be able to?
 

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No, hiccups and bumps are expected. Every manufacturer goes through it. It's the ones that constantly keep rambling about it when the product hasn't even launched yet and have no basis or evidence to backup the claims they are making that are the "nay-sayers."

This process is going to take some time to iron out and that just comes with the territory of where Fisker is at right now. Shoot, it's been a decade plus and apparently Tesla can't figure it out either. If a company that's been doing it for 10 years can't figure it out, why do we have the expectation for a company that's launching to be able to?
Well, I guess you have to ask those people that question. I'm not one of nay-sayers in this topic because I haven't said "They say that the initial production runs will be plagued with problems" as the OP states
 

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I see on Facebook and other social media the "Nay-Sayers" out there. They say that the initial production runs will be plagued with problems, as this is often the case with new vehicles. They feel that there won't be enough ability to repair the vehicles, and this will cause the company to sink "like Fisker's first company"....

Thoughts?
I suspect they are right about initial production flaws. This is the first run of cars from a new company filled with new technology. There will be problems. How well fisker handles them will determine the future of the company. Yes it's being built by Magna, but Magna built the iPace and the first generation of iPace had many problems. It wont be as many problems as the first tesla roadster, but there will be problems for sure. Hopefully they aren't catastrophic and there is a plan on how to fix the whole fleet quickly if needed.
 

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No, hiccups and bumps are expected. Every manufacturer goes through it. It's the ones that constantly keep rambling about it when the product hasn't even launched yet and have no basis or evidence to backup the claims they are making that are the "nay-sayers."

This process is going to take some time to iron out and that just comes with the territory of where Fisker is at right now. Shoot, it's been a decade plus and apparently Tesla can't figure it out either. If a company that's been doing it for 10 years can't figure it out, why do we have the expectation for a company that's launching to be able to?
Tesla could have improved their quality by now if they wanted to. Elon just doesnt want to slow down production or put money into higher quality when he's selling every low quality car he can make. He'd rather just have them all have to go to the service center to get their numerous production flaws fixed.
 

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I suspect they are right about initial production flaws. This is the first run of cars from a new company filled with new technology. There will be problems. How well fisker handles them will determine the future of the company. Yes it's being built by Magna, but Magna built the iPace and the first generation of iPace had many problems. It wont be as many problems as the first tesla roadster, but there will be problems for sure. Hopefully they aren't catastrophic and there is a plan on how to fix the whole fleet quickly if needed.
Let's face it. It is safe bet to say there will be some problems. Hard to say how severe or prevalent they will be, however. A buyback from a legacy car maker would not sink them since they have many revenue streams and many examples of their work on the road already. But a buyback or significant prevalent failures (e.g. battery fires, etc). could be enough to sink a startup. This will be the only car in production for at least a year. They picked just about the best partners they can in Magna and suppliers so all we can do is keep our fingers crossed and brace for SoP at this point.
 
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