[Atadaskew]

This is a huge deal IMO. Especially where I live and travel.

 

[Blu Angel]

@lukazojr

during a meeting with Biden adminstration yesterday or Monday to get some extra funding for building charging infrastructure

So, how much monies (of $7.5 Billion)
allocated for the expanded EV Chargers will Tesla receive?

Obviously, the devil is in the details!

To be fair, across the board, to all
EV charging platforms, the Biden
Administration should allocate
a specific dollar amount for each
EV Charger build with CCS1 plugs

 

[TT97]

My assumption is that non-Teslas will pay a "premium" charging fee. It will likely be cheaper charging at other networks but good to know that the Tesla network would be available. This is especially the case in Mammoth Lakes, CA as it has a Tesla charger and the closest CCS location is 45 miles away in Bishop. (although there are only 8 stalls and it already has a backup on busy weekends so not sure how well it would go opening it up).

My concern is the charging port location. The Tesla charger cables are very short (considerably shorter than CCS locations). All Teslas have their charging port on the rear driver side. The Tesla charger would only reach vehicles that have the port on the rear driver side or front passenger side. The Ocean has the port on the front driver side so wouldn't be able to reach. Solutions would be to have a longer CCS cable than the Tesla cable or if they go CCS adapter to have an adapter with an extension. We will have to wait to see what they propose.

 

[MTN Ranger]

My assumption is that non-Teslas will pay a "premium" charging fee. It will likely be cheaper charging at other networks but good to know that the Tesla network would be available. This is especially the case in Mammoth Lakes, CA as it has a Tesla charger and the closest CCS location is 45 miles away in Bishop. (although there are only 8 stalls and it already has a backup on busy weekends so not sure how well it would go opening it up).

My concern is the charging port location. The Tesla charger cables are very short (considerably shorter than CCS locations). All Teslas have their charging port on the rear driver side. The Tesla charger would only reach vehicles that have the port on the rear driver side or front passenger side. The Ocean has the port on the front driver side so wouldn't be able to reach. Solutions would be to have a longer CCS cable than the Tesla cable or if they go CCS adapter to have an adapter with an extension. We will have to wait to see what they propose.

Don’t know about the US, but here is the info for Europe. Per Bjorn Nyland in Norway, Tesla is still cheaper than some of the providers.

Charging Price Comparison: Tesla (SC Pilot) Vs IONITY Vs Fastned

The recent launch of the Non-Tesla Supercharger Pilot in the Netherlands prompted us to compare the offer with some of the other networks.

insideevs.com

Pricing
Will Supercharger pricing change for Tesla drivers?
Tesla drivers can continue to charge for the same price.
How much does charging cost for Non-Tesla vehicles?
Pricing for Non-Tesla drivers reflects additional costs incurred to support charging a broad range of vehicles and adjustments to our sites to accommodate these vehicles. Rates vary by site, and you can view charging prices in the Tesla app. The per kWh price to charge can be lowered with a charging membership.
Do idle fees apply to Non-Tesla vehicles?
Yes. The same logic and fee structure applies to both Tesla and Non-Tesla EVs to help ensure stalls are open for everyone to charge. Learn more about how idle fees work.

 

[S7davis]

I do believe non-Tesla will pay a little more. However, I think it is written in the Bill that charging stations either have to charge at the price of electricity at that time or no more than X amount over the cost of the electricity. The most expensive thing on charging are the idle fees. Also with Tesla they do not add amount of time Fee as that will become illegal to do so in a few more years. Cost for charging an EV will all be done by Kw rates with no time limit of charging fee. But will always have an idle fee if you sit too long after being charged.

 

[TT97]

Also with Tesla they do not add amount of time Fee as that will become illegal to do so in a few more years. Cost for charging an EV will all be done by Kw rates with no time limit of charging fee.

Where did you see this? I have noticed for both Tesla and Electrify America that it varies by state (I have not looked at other networks). While they charge by kWh in most states, there are certain states they charge by time (with different rates depending on the speed). The states that they charge by time is due to State regulations for utility provider which forbids the charging stations to charge by kWh unless registered as a utility provider.

 

[MTN Ranger]

Where did you see this? I have noticed for both Tesla and Electrify America that it varies by state (I have not looked at other networks). While they charge by kWh in most states, there are certain states they charge by time (with different rates depending on the speed). The states that they charge by time is due to State regulations for utility provider which forbids the charging stations to charge by kWh unless registered as a utility provider.

Yes, charging by kWh or time is a state law issue relating to power generation regulation. My state changed from time to kWh a couple years ago.

 

[S7davis]

Sorry mostly all the information I am finding on pricing is mostly for California lol. I did find that their are 30 states that have signed up for charge by Kw usage instead of per minute. Because if companies insist on charging per minute they will force people not to go electric as no one will want to pay the rate per minute on top of Kw charge rate. With EVs we lose range depending on a bunch of different variables. One of the main variables is weather if its cold you lose about 20 - 30% range right off the bat. So we need to charge more often.

 

[MTN Ranger]

Sorry mostly all the information I am finding on pricing is mostly for California lol. I did find that their are 30 states that have signed up for charge by Kw usage instead of per minute. Because if companies insist on charging per minute they will force people not to go electric as no one will want to pay the rate per minute on top of Kw charge rate. With EVs we lose range depending on a bunch of different variables. One of the main variables is weather if its cold you lose about 20 - 30% range right off the bat. So we need to charge more often.

That’s not how it works. You pay for the electricity by the minute without other fees. Sometimes they group it by charge rate. For example if you charge 60kW or slower you pay $0.15/min above it you pay $0.25/min. It was actually a little cheaper for me to supercharge when my state had the price per minute.

 

[S7davis]

That’s not how it works. You pay for the electricity by the minute without other fees. Sometimes they group it by charge rate. For example if you charge 60kW or slower you pay $0.15/min above it you pay $0.25/min. It was actually a little cheaper for me to supercharge when my state had the price per minute.

Thanks for this correction. As I do not own an EV right now and I am in California I thought it was $.23 per Kw charged not a per minute guess once i get an EV i will find out one way or another. But I think here in California it is a straight price per Kw but I could be wrong maybe someone in California who has an EV can share on this but back to the original topic of Tesla allowing Supercharger access to other EVs.

I think Musk is doing the right thing as his network is substantially the more stable infrastructure. I think I did read that the V3 Superchargers are the only ones that will get converted to the CCS option. I think he also mentioned the V2 stations owners will probably need to have their own adaptor until he gets to updated all his stations to V3 which I am sure will happen but he needs to first finish building them all before updating will occur or until the overhaul of the V2 takes place.

 

[MTN Ranger]

V3 Superchargers are a game changer for me when travelling. 250kW and they don't share power like the V2 does with another station. Each unit is independent. V2 can be annoying if someone parks next to you and the rate then drops. Luckily all new installations are V3.

BTW, Tesla owns all the superchargers (except for some commercial taxi/car rental locations). Tesla has contracts to use parking spots (for example Sheetz gas stations) in return for increased traffic to the property owner. Destination chargers are L2 AC and are owned by the landowner and provide the electricity.

 

[TT97]

Thanks for this correction. As I do not own an EV right now and I am in California I thought it was $.23 per Kw charged not a per minute guess once i get an EV i will find out one way or another. But I think here in California it is a straight price per Kw but I could be wrong maybe someone in California who has an EV can share on this but back to the original topic of Tesla allowing Supercharger access to other EVs.

I think Musk is doing the right thing as his network is substantially the more stable infrastructure. I think I did read that the V3 Superchargers are the only ones that will get converted to the CCS option. I think he also mentioned the V2 stations owners will probably need to have their own adaptor until he gets to updated all his stations to V3 which I am sure will happen but he needs to first finish building them all before updating will occur or until the overhaul of the V2 takes place.

The $0.23/kWh is a very old rate. Tesla no longer has standardize pricing but cost for California is now approx. $0.48/kWh. They do cut the rate to about half during late hours. Tesla prefers to charge by kWh; in States where they are forced to charge by the minute, they try to set up tiers so that the cost to charge is very similar to when they charge by kWh.

Tesla has three different chargers - V2 charges at 120-150 kW; V3 reach 250 kW and "Urban" chargers are 70-75 kW. They are no longer installing V2 chargers and 95%+ of all new chargers are V3. In the U.S., Tesla currently has 1,655 locations either open or under construction/permiting. Those locations have a total of 17,277 stall of which 9,867 are V3 stalls (57%). V3 are already over half their stalls and continue to grow quickly. If only V3s are adapted for CCS; they will still be the largest network in the U.S.

I do see them creating an adapter for people to buy - it will be a lot easier than converting 10k+ stalls. I can also see the adapter linking to the Tesla Account so it can charge you automatically and seamlessly when you connect.

If you want to see Supercharger info:

supercharge.info

Zoomable Tesla supercharger map with adjustable range indicator.

supercharge.info

 

[MTN Ranger]

The $0.23/kWh is a very old rate. Tesla no longer has standardize pricing but cost for California is now approx. $0.48/kWh. They do cut the rate to about half during late hours. Tesla prefers to charge by kWh; in States where they are forced to charge by the minute, they try to set up tiers so that the cost to charge is very similar to when they charge by kWh.

Tesla has three different chargers - V2 charges at 120-150 kW; V3 reach 250 kW and "Urban" chargers are 70-75 kW. They are no longer installing V2 chargers and 95%+ of all new chargers are V3. In the U.S., Tesla currently has 1,655 locations either open or under construction/permiting. Those locations have a total of 17,277 stall of which 9,867 are V3 stalls (57%). V3 are already over half their stalls and continue to grow quickly. If only V3s are adapted for CCS; they will still be the largest network in the U.S.

I do see them creating an adapter for people to buy - it will be a lot easier than converting 10k+ stalls. I can also see the adapter linking to the Tesla Account so it can charge you automatically and seamlessly when you connect.

If you want to see Supercharger info:

supercharge.info

Zoomable Tesla supercharger map with adjustable range indicator.

supercharge.info

I see we have the same car. What's you VIN? I'm 142XX from April 2018.

 

[Blu Angel]

@TT97

Tesla currently has 1,655 locations either open or under construction..
Those locations have a total of 17,277 stall of which 9,867 are V3 stalls (57%)

This is might impressive!
One can only guess how fast the
SC network will grow to with
the Biden Administration EV Charger monies!

@MTN Ranger
P.S. My Tesla 3 vin is 22xxx
from June 6, 2018

 

[lukazojr]

The one downside is that their has to be some sort of screen on the chargers so people can see the charging and price. Now I am not sure if tesla will start putting screens on their chargers or it will just be thru their app but I think all charging places have to have some sort of visual display somewhere whether it is inside the car/ or app to be transparent on the charges and amount of electricity going into the vehicle and amount of time being used. At least here in California it is like that from that Bill 349 I think it was that passed 2 or 3 years ago.

 

[TT97]

I see we have the same car. What's you VIN? I'm 142XX from April 2018.

Mine's a "newer" model - 207xx from May 2018.

 

[MTN Ranger]

The one downside is that their has to be some sort of screen on the chargers so people can see the charging and price. Now I am not sure if tesla will start putting screens on their chargers or it will just be thru their app but I think all charging places have to have some sort of visual display somewhere whether it is inside the car/ or app to be transparent on the charges and amount of electricity going into the vehicle and amount of time being used. At least here in California it is like that from that Bill 349 I think it was that passed 2 or 3 years ago.

It's all done on the app. Tesla is not putting any screens or credit card terminals on the superchargers - too much to go wrong and break over time. I've seen so many DCFC and L2 J1772 with broken screens to count. When I supercharge, the app and the car's screen shows the kWh and costs increasing as it goes in the car.

 

[S7davis]

Yeah I knew with Tesla's it was integrated on the cars screen. But guess for non teslas it will be all done via tesla app as you mentioned.

 

[slipnslider]

As a telsa owner-turned-tesla hater, the one thing I will miss is the supercharger network and the way it's integrated into the nav system. It's perfect and seamless. It maps out your whole trip for you and includes charging times. Can tell you how busy each charger is, what speed, and how many open spots. I dont expect that with my next EV but I will miss it.

 

[Blu Angel]

FY1:
Just lent my Tesla 3 LR to my son
& family.
Road Trip: Toronto-New York City
[email protected] $105 CDN for 20 hour drive
and 1600 km or 1000 miles