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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is the poll from the Facebook group.

Rectangle Font Parallel Screenshot Number



As you can see, Ultra reigns supreme, followed by the ONE.
This agrees with our poll.
The folks that want the Extreme default to the ONE. After that, it's crickets.
I understand why Fisher wants to sell the high-margin cars first, but the pressure from Ultra demand cannot be ignored until Oct 23.
Surely it can't. What say you Ocean Forum?
 

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The poll looks to mirror the Fisker Poll with the exception of the ONE and Sport numbers

FISKER Poll Results: (December 2021)

Fisker Ocean ONE & Extreme: 38 %
Fisker Ocean Ultra: 43 %
Fisker Ocean Sport 19 %
 
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This is the poll from the Facebook group.

View attachment 1205


As you can see, Ultra reigns supreme, followed by the ONE.
This agrees with our poll.
The folks that want the Extreme default to the ONE. After that, it's crickets.
I understand why Fisher wants to sell the high-margin cars first, but the pressure from Ultra demand cannot be ignored until Oct 23.
Surely it can't. What say you Ocean Forum?
Unfortunately, fisker can keep delaying the ultra to make people buy the extreme. They know people in the USA will have to take delivery in 2023 in order to take advantage of the (possible) $7500 credit, so they could just keep making extreme's all 2023 to force anyone who wants the tax credit to upgrade to extreme. This would be shady but would likely work and increase their profits. USA might not see any ultras til 2024.

Also, I'm not sure people who are ordering Ultras realize that it doesn't have any self driving capabilities. You need to upgrade to extreme for that. Lots of people will likely switch for this factor alone.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Unfortunately, fisker can keep delaying the ultra to make people buy the extreme. They know people in the USA will have to take delivery in 2023 in order to take advantage of the (possible) $7500 credit, so they could just keep making extreme's all 2023 to force anyone who wants the tax credit to upgrade to extreme. This would be shady but would likely work and increase their profits. USA might not see any ultras til 2024.

Also, I'm not sure people who are ordering Ultras realize that it doesn't have any self driving capabilities. You need to upgrade to extreme for that. Lots of people will likely switch for this factor alone.
Jumping up to $70K from $50K is huge!
I'm in for the Ultra but I don't need self-driving. However, I wonder how extensive those capabilities are. For example, with the Model 3, if you want self-parking and the "summon" feature, you have to upgrade to get the self-driving feature.
 

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Unfortunately, fisker can keep delaying the ultra to make people buy the extreme. They know people in the USA will have to take delivery in 2023 in order to take advantage of the (possible) $7500 credit, so they could just keep making extreme's all 2023 to force anyone who wants the tax credit to upgrade to extreme. This would be shady but would likely work and increase their profits. USA might not see any ultras til 2024.

Also, I'm not sure people who are ordering Ultras realize that it doesn't have any self driving capabilities. You need to upgrade to extreme for that. Lots of people will likely switch for this factor alone.
I think you should try to look at things from the other perspective. You see "there is no level 2 driving unless I spend $18k more, so therefore people will want the Extreme." I see "I can spend 18k less and get 95% of the performance, the same range, same styling, and my current car only has basic cruise control so Ultra is good for me." For the money, it's hard to find a better value than Ultra. Maybe the Ioniq5 if you like the styling, to get their level 2 ADAS? Less range though and performance though.
 

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Jumping up to $70K from $50K is huge!
I'm in for the Ultra but I don't need self-driving. However, I wonder how extensive those capabilities are. For example, with the Model 3, if you want self-parking and the "summon" feature, you have to upgrade to get the self-driving feature.
Yeah its a big jump. That's why it really sucks if they're not going to offer any auto driving for less than 70k. I dont think the ultra will even offer adaptive cruise control. At least not from looking at the spec sheet.
 

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I think you should try to look at things from the other perspective. You see "there is no level 2 driving unless I spend $18k more, so therefore people will want the Extreme." I see "I can spend 18k less and get 95% of the performance, the same range, same styling, and my current car only has basic cruise control so Ultra is good for me." For the money, it's hard to find a better value than Ultra. Maybe the Ioniq5 if you like the styling, to get their level 2 ADAS? Less range though and performance though.
As a tesla owner I've been spoiled. As soon as I realized how useful auto driving is for traffic jams and road trips I said I'll never be able to go back to old fashioned cruise control. Tesla also offers these features free on their base models. And you can get them on 30k hondas and kias. I was interested in the i4, but now you have to get the 70k M50 model to get drive assist packages. Bummed to see fisker doing the same thing.
 

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Unfortunately, fisker can keep delaying the ultra to make people buy the extreme. They know people in the USA will have to take delivery in 2023 in order to take advantage of the (possible) $7500 credit, so they could just keep making extreme's all 2023 to force anyone who wants the tax credit to upgrade to extreme. This would be shady but would likely work and increase their profits. USA might not see any ultras til 2024.

Also, I'm not sure people who are ordering Ultras realize that it doesn't have any self driving capabilities. You need to upgrade to extreme for that. Lots of people will likely switch for this factor alone.
None of the trims have self driving; all the trims have level 2 features. The Extreme does have some additional features but my guess is that they will be available on the Ultra as an option.

Fisker did state they plan on producing Ultras in 2023 so do not see why they wouldn't. There also is no regulation in the Transition provision in the Inflation Reduction Act that states the vehicle needs to be delivered prior to 12/31/23.
 
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Unfortunately, fisker can keep delaying the ultra to make people buy the extreme. They know people in the USA will have to take delivery in 2023 in order to take advantage of the (possible) $7500 credit, so they could just keep making extreme's all 2023 to force anyone who wants the tax credit to upgrade to extreme. This would be shady but would likely work and increase their profits. USA might not see any ultras til 2024.

Also, I'm not sure people who are ordering Ultras realize that it doesn't have any self driving capabilities. You need to upgrade to extreme for that. Lots of people will likely switch for this factor alone.
I thought they had removed the requirement to take delivery in 2023? Reading the current bill, I do not see that requirement any more.
 

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None of the trims have self driving; all the trims have level 2 features. The Extreme does have some additional features but my guess is that they will be available on the Ultra as an option.

Fisker did state they plan on producing Ultras in 2023 so do not see why they wouldn't. There also is no regulation in the Transition provision in the Inflation Reduction Act that states the vehicle needs to be delivered prior to 12/31/23.
When I say SELF DRIVING I mean ADAPTIVE CRUISE CONTROL WITH LANE KEEPING. Those things are life changers. The only trim I see them mentioned on is the Extreme. I think the other trims just get speed limit warnings and lane drift warnings and call them "drivers assist features".

I know fisker said they'd build ultras in 2023, but think about it - if he's still selling extremes in 2023, why would he start selling ultras for less money? He's got to look out for the company's bottom line, not our bottom line. The announcement will go something like "Due to unforseen demand for the exteme edition, we're going to be delaying production of the ultra trim until early 2024. Buyers who want to take advantage of the $7500 tax credit are advised to upgrade to the Extreme in order to assure they can take delivery in 2023 since the tax credit will be eliminated for 2024 deliveries." He can use the dissappearing $7500 credit to push people towards a more expensive car. And it will make the price difference between Ultra and Extreme a lot closer - 62k for an extreme with the tax credit in 2023 vs 50k for an ultra without the tax credit in 2024. If he's looking out for his bottom line and trying to keep his company afloat, that's likely what he'll do. I'm pessimistic and cynical, but that's been my experience with corporate behavior everywhere I look.
 

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I thought they had removed the requirement to take delivery in 2023? Reading the current bill, I do not see that requirement any more.
The new credit won't apply to fisker at all. I believe the current bill allows the OLD $7500 credit to still be used IF you have a committed order before the bill is signed AND the car can be delivered in 2022-2023.
 

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I'll be honest, I would love the traffic jam assist features. Sounds like it could definitely ease the stress of a crappy commute. Everyone has to weigh the features and values in a car differently and against their budget.
 

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The big question is how many vehicles will Magna produce next year? They said they would hit a run rate of 5,000 by year end. If we assume a linear production ramp from 200 units in Dec and 300 in Jan, you get what looks like the following:
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This is very conveniently super consistent with the Fisker estimate on ONEs being delivered by June. With that in mind, then, you can see how HF would say they can probably fill the year with Ones and Extremes, but it is especially obvious why the Ultra and Sport do not start until Oct. The first 18k vehicles will most certainly be O/X models.
 

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Just pulled the latest press release which says: "On August 3, 2022, Fisker reaffirmed its start of production date for November 17, 2022, and its 2023 production plans of 40,000-50,000 Fisker Ocean units, aligned with the company's financial strategy and timeline."

So a ramp should look more like this:
Font Material property Screenshot Number Pattern
 
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Go to YouTube and Google ArcFox Alpha S self-driving. They beat Tesla to FSD. It will blow your mind how good it drives with zero driver intervention. The ArcFox is the twin to the Ocean. If that's ANY indication of what the Ocean is capable of....

SIGN ME UP.

P.S. Ultra will have ADAS package, and the hardware is already there.
 

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Go to YouTube and Google ArcFox Alpha S self-driving. They beat Tesla to FSD. It will blow your mind how good it drives with zero driver intervention. The ArcFox is the twin to the Ocean. If that's ANY indication of what the Ocean is capable of....

SIGN ME UP.

P.S. Ultra will have ADAS package, and the hardware is already there.
Uses Huawei's self-driving tech. Very sophisticated system.

 
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The new credit won't apply to fisker at all. I believe the current bill allows the OLD $7500 credit to still be used IF you have a committed order before the bill is signed AND the car can be delivered in 2022-2023.
Agree that Fisker is not eligible for the new credit. I am questioning the Transition Rule. The current wording is below:

    1. (l) TRANSITION RULE.—Solely for purposes of the ap-
    2. 24 plication of section 30D of the Internal Revenue Code of
    3. 25 1986, in the case of a taxpayer that
  1. (1) after December 31, 2021, and before the date
  2. 2 of enactment of this Act, purchased, or entered into
  3. 3 a written binding contract to purchase, a new quali-
  4. 4 fied plug-in electric drive motor vehicle (as defined in
  5. 5 section 30D(d)(1) of the Internal Revenue Code of
  6. 6 1986, as in effect on the day before the date of enact-
  7. 7 ment of this Act), and
  8. 8 (2) placed such vehicle in service on or after the
  9. 9 date of enactment of this Act,
  10. 10 such taxpayer may elect (at such time, and in such form
  11. 11 and manner, as the Secretary of the Treasury, or the Sec-
  12. 12 retary’s delegate, may prescribe) to treat such vehicle as
  13. 13 having been placed in service on the day before the date
  14. 14 of enactment of this Act.
 

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The new credit won't apply to fisker at all. I believe the current bill allows the OLD $7500 credit to still be used IF you have a committed order before the bill is signed AND the car can be delivered in 2022-2023.
The transition rule does not mention a cutoff date for delivery. I suppose IRS/Treasury could try to impose one in regulations but the law doesn’t have one so if they do impose one it could go to tax court if someone challenges it all the way.
 

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Uses Huawei's self-driving tech. Very sophisticated system.

Fantastic find.Interesting that they were going to sell the tech to VW too. Fisker was in talks to use a platform from VW for the Ocean but the talks fell through.
 

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As a tesla owner I've been spoiled. As soon as I realized how useful auto driving is for traffic jams and road trips I said I'll never be able to go back to old fashioned cruise control. Tesla also offers these features free on their base models. And you can get them on 30k hondas and kias. I was interested in the i4, but now you have to get the 70k M50 model to get drive assist packages. Bummed to see fisker doing the same thing.
This feature is present on most every vehicle at this time. Even cheap Kia and Hyundai models (the cheap ones) have this feature now.
 
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