[S7davis]

Hello all in case anyone is planning on going to the NYAS next week please take a camera and do a test drive in the VINFAST VF8 I would love to know your impressions. I know this is a competitor but at least we could get this vehicle before end of year.

Vinfast Talk

 

[BayouCityBob]

Hello all in case anyone is planning on going to the NYAS next week please take a camera and do a test drive in the VINFAST VF8 I would love to know your impressions. I know this is a competitor but at least we could get this vehicle before end of year.

Vinfast Talk

I really like the VF9. (VF8 not so interesting to me). If they insist on sticking to their battery leasing business model then I am not interested, but I am assuming that they will realize that the US market is not going to embrace the battery leasing business model and that they will bow to market realities soon enough.

 

[S7davis]

I really like the VF9. (VF8 not so interesting to me). If they insist on sticking to their battery leasing business model then I am not interested, but I am assuming that they will realize that the US market is not going to embrace the battery leasing business model and that they will bow to market realities soon enough.

You do make some good points about the battery leasing. However, if you are a person who drives a lot and does a bunch of road trips it might be a suitable option for them but not everyone. As the more you charge your batteries the more degradation they do get. I mean in that aspect if you plan to keep the car more than the 10 years yes battery rentals is not a viable solution. As you will be paying more for them. I do know their vehicle pricing is just as much as a EV coming to market without rental program. So with Vinfast you are sort of paying a premium for their cars as they have to pay for all the embargo fees and importing of goods until they get their factory up and running here in the USA. However, I kinda like the battery leasing program but I can also see where people will hate it. It is not cheap unlimited program is around $160 a month and the mileage they give you is stupid only the EPA mileage of the pack before adding an extra charge per mile over that a month. I think they will realize the rental program will not be beneficial in the USA/Canada.

Edit: Only good thing I see with battery rental is that if battery does get below i think they said %70 you get a brand new battery pack free of charge.

 

[BayouCityBob]

I hear you but EV battery degradation is so small (except the old air-cooled Leaf batteries) that it really is not a meaningful issue. My 4 year old Model 3s have around 5% degradation and they have leveled off. The standard warranty on a Tesla battery is 8 years or 120,000 miles with a 70% minimum. Fisker is doing 10 years / 100k miles, 75% minimum capacity. Rivian has 8 year 175k with 70% guarantee. Hyundai is 10 years/100,000 miles.⁠ Ford is 8 years/100,000 miles 70% minimum. Volkswagen is also 8/100.

In short, the VinFast lease option gives you no protection beyond any standard vehicle warranty unless you drive more than 100,000 miles or own the vehicle beyond 8-10 years. Fisker is really the best out there for my personal use with its 10/100/75%

 

[S7davis]

Fisker seems to be the best for my use as well. Plus wife would not let me get a VinFast anyways lol. But next week I will be watching a bunch of youtube videos when they get published lol.

 

[BayouCityBob]

Fisker seems to be the best for my use as well. Plus wife would not let me get a VinFast anyways lol. But next week I will be watching a bunch of youtube videos when they get published lol.

Lol. My wife not keen on VinFast either. But to me that VF9 is so distinctive looking that I find myself drawn to it!

 

[MTN Ranger]

I have 46k miles on my 2018 Model 3 and have about 4% degradation. I supercharge on trips several times a year. At this rate, the battery pack should be good for another 24 years until it hits 70% of the original range.

 

[BayouCityBob]

I have 46k miles on my 2018 Model 3 and have about 4% degradation. I supercharge on trips several times a year. At this rate, the battery pack should be good for another 24 years until it hits 70% of the original range.

Very nice. I just participated in the Recurrent degradation study with my 2018 model 3 (using their little plugin device to monitor the battery for 8 weeks). I am looking forward to seeing what this tells me. The car indicates a maximum range of 292 (out of original 310) or 6% loss. But it has been there for more than a year so it looks pretty stable right now. I am thinking it should be a solid 90% in 10 years (consistent with the older S batteries). I do not think anyone really knows how time will affect these. So far they seem to be surprising everyone with their longevity. (Unless you have an old Leaf... totally different issue there). My 2011 Volt retained 95%+ of its battery over 7 years. I really think this is a non-issue.

 

[MTN Ranger]

Very nice. I just participated in the Recurrent degradation study with my 2018 model 3 (using their little plugin device to monitor the battery for 8 weeks). I am looking forward to seeing what this tells me. The car indicates a maximum range of 292 (out of original 310) or 6% loss. But it has been there for more than a year so it looks pretty stable right now. I am thinking it should be a solid 90% in 10 years (consistent with the older S batteries). I do not think anyone really knows how time will affect these. So far they seem to be surprising everyone with their longevity. (Unless you have an old Leaf... totally different issue there). My 2011 Volt retained 95%+ of its battery over 7 years. I really think this is a non-issue.

I also have a Recurrent account, but only the software version that gives a monthly report on the car. My pack range floats around 290-300 in the last six months and averages around 296 miles. It's an interesting report for anyone curious about degradation and statistics, I'll post last month's numbers:

 

[BayouCityBob]

I also have a Recurrent account, but only the software version that gives a monthly report on the car. My pack range floats around 290-300 in the last six month and averages around 296 miles. It's an interesting report for anyone curious about degradation and statistics, I'll post last month's numbers:

They had a National Science Foundation funded study where they plugged in a Geotab monitoring device to Model 3s and Leafs to continuously monitor the battery pack (link below). It was installed for a few months and then I sent it back. They now owe me a detailed report on the vehicle.

Enhanced Analytics Pilot Program

www.recurrentauto.com

For your interest, I also came across a new venture capital funded company called Titan Advanced Energy Solutions. Titan Advanced Energy Solutions | Titanaes These folks are using an small ultrasound device to map and measure battery health in the pack (does not work for cylindrical batteries as I understand it). This physical mapping of the pack should become a standard feature on vehicles in the near future and can be used as a diagnostic test for vehicles as well (only takes a few minutes to do on a used vehicle). Very cool.

 

[Blu Angel]

@BayouCityBob

just participated in the Recurrent degradation study with my 2018 model 3 (using their little plugin device to monitor the battery for 8 weeks). I

I requested to be a part of this study
it was rejected because my Tesla 3 lives in Canada!
Recurrent May eventually decide to include Canada

@MTN Ranger
great looking statistical detail
Seems you charge from 33% - 82%
and you average from 58%
Wish I could get this info

 

[MTN Ranger]

@BayouCityBob

I requested to be a part of this study
it was rejected because my Tesla 3 lives in Canada!
Recurrent May eventually decide to include Canada

@MTN Ranger
great looking statistical detail
Seems you charge from 33% - 82%
and you average from 58%
Wish I could get this info

This was an unusual month since I had a last minute 800 mile trip that had 100% charging when I started.

I laugh when I see the resale values on a 4 year old car is less than my purchase price!

 

[S7davis]

Well just read on the Vintalk forum that you will not be driving the Vinfast but just be driven in it. Which for me to look at videos is fine as I just want to see what people think about it and the tech it has on the inside anyways.

 

[BayouCityBob]

Well... VinFast revealed its Battery Leasing and US Pricing today. It is an intelligence test, I suppose. It will be filed under: "How stupid do you need to be to buy a VinFast"
VF8+ is $48,000 (270 miles of range, 0-60 5.3 seconds) and an annual battery fee of $1,320 a year or $35 a month + 11 cents a mile
VF8 base model is $41,000 (290 miles range, 0-60 5.8 sec) and an annual battery fee of $1,320 a year or $35 a month + 11 cents a mile
VF9+ is $61,000 (360 miles of range, 0-60 6.3 sec) and an annual battery fee of $1,920 a year
VF9 base is 56,000 (369 miles range, 0-60 6.3 sec) and an annual battery fee of $1,920 a year

So quick comparison:
You are trying to decide on the Ocean Ultra (340 miles of range, 0-60 in 3.9 sec, 250kw charging) or the VF8 base (290 miles of range, 0-60 5.8 sec, 150kw charging).
Ocean will set you back $50k. Over ten years that is $50k. (excluding interest)
VF8 over 10 years will set you back $54,200 (excluding interest)
At the end of 10 years you will still own the Ocean, battery and all. On the VinFast you will own the VF8 without a battery (because VinFast owns the battery). How do you think you will do on resale? The next owner for the next ten years has to pay another $13,200 just to enable the battery. Which vehicle will be worth more on the resale market?

Now if your Vinfast battery capacity falls below 70% they will replace it free (which is irrelevant because batteries don't do that unless you drive a Gen 1 Nissan Leaf!)
If your Fisker falls below 75% they will also replace it for free so the Fisker warranty is better (and free).

Very tricky decision, no? /s

Looks like VinFast is DOA in the US market.

 

[Blu Angel]

@BayouCityBob

Looks like VinFast is DOA in the US market.

The North American consumer just wants one all-inclusive price!
Vinfast should follow the KISS rule, “Keep it simple stupid!”

 

[Baker]

@BayouCityBob

The North American consumer just wants one all-inclusive price!
Vinfast should follow the KISS rule, “Keep it simple stupid!”

For me Vinfast is not an alternative to Fisker Ocean.

 

[S7davis]

True but think of it like this. I think in America a lot of consumers do not keep their vehicles for 10 - 15 years. Now if you are a buyer that does this then yes the Vinfast with its battery leasing is not a viable option. However, if you are a person that just leases cars or only keep cars for under 10 years then it does become cheaper as if for some reason the battery degrades to quickly yes it is under warranty but you will not have to pay for it.

But it is a new company in the USA they also do have an unlimited plan for think $160 a month for the batteries. However, the battery leasing is not a viable option for the USA. It might work great in Vietnam but do not believe that model will be successful in the USA.

 

[EvolOcean]

Yeah, I don’t get this business model at all. Who wants another monthly payment on top of their monthly loan payment? Dumb.

 

[BayouCityBob]

​

However, if you are a person that just leases cars or only keep cars for under 10 years then it does become cheaper as if for some reason the battery degrades to quickly yes it is under warranty but you will not have to pay for it.

But it is a new company in the USA they also do have an unlimited plan for think $160 a month for the batteries. However, the battery leasing is not a viable option for the USA. It might work great in Vietnam but do not believe that model will be successful in the USA.

I imagine this: One person buys a an Ioniq 5 base for $43 k (300 miles of range, 350kw charging) The other buys a VF8 for $42k (290 miles, 150kw charging)

In five years they go to sell them...
Buyer: How much for the Ioniq 5?
Ioniq Seller: I will sell it to you for 50% of the original price, $21,500
Buyer: Cool. How much for the VF8?
VinFast Seller: I will also sell it to you for 50% of the original price, $21,000. Oh, plus you have to pay $110 a month for as long as you own the car.
Buyer: What for?
VinFast Seller: Well, I do not actually own the battery, so you have to lease that forever. But hey, if the battery capacity ever drops below 70% they will replace it.
Buyer: Well, how much capacity is there now?
Ioniq Seller: 92%
VinFast Seller: yeah about 92%. That is normal for 5 years. But what if it dropped?
Buyer: Well, Mr. Ioniq, that is a good question. What if the Ioniq battery drops below 70%?
Ioniq Seller: That never happens, but the car is under warranty for ten years so if it drops below 70% anytime in the next five years they will replace it for free.
Buyer: Oh... So $21,500 for the Ioniq and five years of free warranty left, or $21,000 for the VinFast plus and extra $6,600 over the next five years and then I still do not own the battery?
VinFast Seller: Right. Okay, I see your point. $15,000
Buyer: But when I sell it I am going to have this conversation all over again?
VinFast Seller: Okay, okay, I see your point. $12,000.
Buyer: But I still have to pay $110 a month. What if they raise the lease price?
VinFast Seller: You have to work that out with VinFast. I am sure they would never do that.
Buyer (looking to Ioniq Seller): And how much faster does this charge?
Ioniq Seller: It takes a little less than half the time. And it has more range.
Buyer (to VinFast Seller): And how many VinFast service centers are there in the US?
VinFast Seller: $9,000. Come on. $9,000 plus $110 per month for as long as you or anyone else owns the car. That is a very good deal...

 

[Misanoblue]

Pricing released for Vinfast models without the battery lease vf8 starts at $57,000. VF9 starts at $76,000.

VF 8 | VinFast

shop.vinfastauto.us