[ekokid]

Hi guys, my partner and I are looking to get an electric vehicle. The Ocean looks awesome! But reading this forum, I get the sense that it would be pointless to put money down on a deposit. It looks like the soonest the car would be built would be 2024.

My reasoning is this: From reading this forum, there are about 50,000 reservations. Only the first 40,000 are going to be able to order a car at 2022-2023 prices.

Once the 40,000 reservations are filled (let's say 33,000 cars because not every reservation will convert to an order) there will be a price increase in 2023 and 2024. So if you are reservation number 40,001 to present, the best you can hope for is a car at a much higher price.

Also, it looks like Fisker is aiming for 200,000 cars to be built per year. So if you're order number 49,999, production of the car will be more than adequate to get you a car probably without that long of a wait. By 2024, the Hyundai, Genesis, Kia, Tesla, VW, BMW, Cadillac, Chevy, Volvo, GM, Audi, BYD, Polestar, Ford, Honda, Rivian, all except maybe Toyota will be producing tons of EV.

So while it's great to be reservation number 39,999, it makes no difference to be 40,001 and just order one in 2024.

Unfortunately this is forcing us to look at Tesla because we can lock in an order right now and know the price, even if the price goes up in the future.

 

[Sportstick]

Unfortunately this is forcing us to look at Tesla because we can lock in an order right now and know the price, even if the price goes up in the future.

No reason to get that desperate and sacrifice quality of product and ownership experience if you read current owner reports. If you need to move on this sooner, I'd check Hyundai Ioniq5, Kia EV6, Genesis GV60, Nissan Ariya, Mustang MachE....any of those before any Tesla. Any.

 

[Blu Angel]

@ekokid
welcome to the EV world…you will love it …..no matter which EV you choose to drive

@Sportstick
well spoken indeed…I second your EV list and would also add Volvo XC40 Recharge!

 

[Sportstick]

@Sportstick
well spoken indeed…I second your EV list and would also add Volvo XC40 Recharge!

Yes, of course, my omission and you are correct about the Volvo. A bit pricey, but another superior choice to consider. 👍 And, come to think of it as well....BMW i4, if the back seat isn't a major concern for space.

 

[ekokid]

I'm going to defend Tesla against those others, but it seems that they have a long track record in spite of all of their faults. Plus if I put a deposit down on a car, sure I won't know the exact month I get it, but I know the car and the price!

It looks like the reservation for the Ocean is putting money down (again, this is for reservation number 40,001 and onward) with no guarantee of a price or anything. I read the horror stories that they just might make a few token models at the lowest trim levels, and really push the higher ones. And at $70,000 currently that is a ton of money, especially because I just really want the under $40k one. I really keep hoping that I am missing something, and that if I put a reservation in now, that it would mean something. But I just can't see it!!!

As far as other cars, definitely I will look at all those others, I just think that I can put a deposit down on the Model 3 and get a guaranteed car at a guaranteed price. A lot of these other companies advertise their MSRP and then you get hit with crazy markups.

Again I really was hoping that there was a reason to reserve a Fisker, but I guess there really isn't. This is a great forum with incredible good vibes and I bet it's going to make agreat car!

 

[BayouCityBob]

I'm going to defend Tesla against those others, but it seems that they have a long track record in spite of all of their faults. Plus if I put a deposit down on a car, sure I won't know the exact month I get it, but I know the car and the price!

It looks like the reservation for the Ocean is putting money down (again, this is for reservation number 40,001 and onward) with no guarantee of a price or anything. I read the horror stories that they just might make a few token models at the lowest trim levels, and really push the higher ones. And at $70,000 currently that is a ton of money, especially because I just really want the under $40k one. I really keep hoping that I am missing something, and that if I put a reservation in now, that it would mean something. But I just can't see it!!!

As far as other cars, definitely I will look at all those others, I just think that I can put a deposit down on the Model 3 and get a guaranteed car at a guaranteed price. A lot of these other companies advertise their MSRP and then you get hit with crazy markups.

Again I really was hoping that there was a reason to reserve a Fisker, but I guess there really isn't. This is a great forum with incredible good vibes and I bet it's going to make agreat car!

FWIW, the total cost to you of a reservation is $25. That is what it will cost to cancel (of course you tie up $250 for a couple of years). Beyond that, while you are asking lots of good and reasonable questions, the reality is no one knows. We do not even know if it is really the first 40k cars or 40k reservations that will be grandfathered into the pricing. So for $25, IMO it is a good bet.

That said, ignore the anti-Tesla whiners. Tesla makes terrific vehicles. There is a reason they are #1 in customer satisfaction once again this year (for any car, not just EVs). There is a reason they are selling more EVs than anyone else in the world despite a big price premium. The simple and indisputable true fact is that most Tesla customers love their vehicles more than any other car on the market. And here is the beautiful thing: if you buy a Tesla and then decide to get the Ocean two years from now, you will get excellent resale on your Tesla so you will have choices if you find that the Tesla is not for you. My 2018 Model 3 is worth more than I paid for it and I am coming on 50k miles. My personal recommendation (if it works for you) is the Model 3. Just my two cents. Whatever you get, enjoy your new EV!

 

[BigMach-E]

I don't know why the Mach-E was put on the end of the list of alternatives. My Mach-E is still one of the nicest cars I've ever been in.

I would say our your reservation in for the Ocean, maybe things pan out.

 

[Bernie]

And if you don't need the size of the Ocean, place a deposit for the Pear. You may get it before an Ocean Sport at this point.

 

[Sportstick]

I don't know why the Mach-E was put on the end of the list of alternatives. My Mach-E is still one of the nicest cars I've ever been in.

I would say our your reservation in for the Ocean, maybe things pan out.

The sequence had no significance...just as names occurred to me to write. Actually, the BMW i4 didn't show up until my follow-up post. Lots of admiration for Mach E, so don't interpret differently.

 

[Sportstick]

That said, ignore the anti-Tesla whiners. Tesla makes terrific vehicles. There is a reason they are #1 in customer satisfaction once again this year (for any car, not just EVs). There is a reason they are selling more EVs than anyone else in the world despite a big price premium. The simple and indisputable true fact is that most Tesla customers love their vehicles more than any other car on the market.

Differences of opinion are fine and actually interesting but this is simply false about customer satisfaction. Tesla is number one in volume because they essentially created the market and there were no choices and they got a great head start vs the industry. A famous hamburger place did the same for their market decades ago and has sold billions. Is that a mark of quality? Not at all. Here is what actual owners reported for 2021 Tesla quality, and even this is an improvement from when they were the actual bottom of the industry.

2021 U.S. Initial Quality Study (IQS)

TROY, Mich.: 31 Aug. 2021 — New-vehicle quality improves 2% from 2020, according to the J.D. Power 2021 U.S. Initial Quality Study (IQS),SM released today. This is slightly lower than the average rate of improvement (3%) seen during the past decade. Infotainment systems are the primary area...

www.jdpower.com

Glad you like your car. Owners of AMC Pacers also famously once thought they had the best cars. It's called cognitive dissonance. Or, given the wide variability of the product, maybe you got a good one and not one of these that the other OEMs would never consider allowing.

https://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-y-owners-have-found-home-depot-shit-used-to-1844999285

I was interested by Tesla at the outset. They held my Model 3 deposit for over a year. When I saw in a showroom what they thought was acceptable and commercial to display, I immediately canceled and got the deposit back. It was below my lowest conception of quality, and on a show car! Imagine what the production was to be. Apparently, challenges remain.

https://jalopnik.com/model-3-owner-says-tesla-cheaped-out-on-quality-for-2-1848173101

However, your good fortune doesn't add up to a data-based recommendation for others to do the same. Lots of good, well-designed, well-assembled, well-serviced EVs out there instead.

 

[HotIce]

FWIW, the total cost to you of a reservation is $25. That is what it will cost to cancel (of course you tie up $250 for a couple of years). Beyond that, while you are asking lots of good and reasonable questions, the reality is no one knows. We do not even know if it is really the first 40k cars or 40k reservations that will be grandfathered into the pricing. So for $25, IMO it is a good bet.

That said, ignore the anti-Tesla whiners. Tesla makes terrific vehicles. There is a reason they are #1 in customer satisfaction once again this year (for any car, not just EVs). There is a reason they are selling more EVs than anyone else in the world despite a big price premium. The simple and indisputable true fact is that most Tesla customers love their vehicles more than any other car on the market. And here is the beautiful thing: if you buy a Tesla and then decide to get the Ocean two years from now, you will get excellent resale on your Tesla so you will have choices if you find that the Tesla is not for you. My 2018 Model 3 is worth more than I paid for it and I am coming on 50k miles. My personal recommendation (if it works for you) is the Model 3. Just my two cents. Whatever you get, enjoy your new EV!

That's because Tesla is so far ahead of the competition that there really isn't a manufacturer at the moment that comes close to providing what Tesla brings to the table yet.

I've interacted with numerous Tesla owners that are not getting another Tesla due to the lack customer service and absolutely abysmal quality control. The Model 3 is not built like a $60,000 car and the Model Y is nowhere near a $70,000 car. The price point at which they are competing is the 'luxury' market and I have a feeling that once we see competition and all of those people that are buying Tesla's have to deal with having to take an uber home instead of getting a loaner, or not being able to actually get someone on the phone, they'll be changing their tune. My Model Y has poorly thought out suspension, poor body control, and I don't think they had a competent staff member on the team that understood what dampening is and how you do it.

I picked up my Model Y Long Range in Dec. 2020 and water would leak into the trunk every time it rained. I was told to just drive the car and they would order the parts necessary. Meanwhile, the trunk of my car just kept getting soaked. This isn't the service I have received from any of other 'luxury' manufactures like BMW, Mercedes, Audi or Volvo. The Model 3 and Y have been on sale for a considerable amount of time and Tesla can't get their quality control act together?

I took delivery of a BRANDA NEW Model Y Performance yesterday and ended up selling it an hour after I took delivery because of the number of problems the car had. It had misaligned front bumper, Rear hatch wasn't lining up, taillights had massive gaps, the black trim around the windows was off, doors didn't line up and I could go on and on. I don't have time to make an appointment, drop the car off and Uber everywhere.

In theory, Tesla's are great cars but they are very much hindered by the overall experience. People will start to realize this as soon as we see other manufacturers such as VW catch up to Tesla. Why would I pay $70,000 for a Tesla that I have to have fixed a day after I pick it up when I can have a vehicle that doesn't require me to spend an hour to look over the car before I accept it? I don't know why so many people think that's acceptable. Also, your Model 3 is worth more than you bought it because of unprecedented market conditions, not something that Tesla did. Every car on the road went up in value when the supply chain shortages came about. The Model 3 does hold its value very, very well though.

I have full faith Henrik can create a product that is what a Tesla should have been.

It wouldn't hurt if Elon would just shut up for two seconds either.

 

[HotIce]

Differences of opinion are fine and actually interesting but this is simply false about customer satisfaction. Tesla is number one in volume because they essentially created the market and there were no choices and they got a great head start vs the industry. A famous hamburger place did the same for their market decades ago and has sold billions. Is that a mark of quality? Not at all. Here is what actual owners reported for 2021 Tesla quality, and even this is an improvement from when they were the actual bottom of the industry.

2021 U.S. Initial Quality Study (IQS)

TROY, Mich.: 31 Aug. 2021 — New-vehicle quality improves 2% from 2020, according to the J.D. Power 2021 U.S. Initial Quality Study (IQS),SM released today. This is slightly lower than the average rate of improvement (3%) seen during the past decade. Infotainment systems are the primary area...

www.jdpower.com

Glad you like your car. Owners of AMC Pacers also famously once thought they had the best cars. It's called cognitive dissonance. Or, given the wide variability of the product, maybe you got a good one and not one of these that the other OEMs would never consider allowing.

https://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-y-owners-have-found-home-depot-shit-used-to-1844999285

I was interested by Tesla at the outset. They held my Model 3 deposit for over a year. When I saw in a showroom what they thought was acceptable and commercial to display, I immediately canceled and got the deposit back. It was below my lowest conception of quality, and on a show car! Imagine what the production was to be. Apparently, challenges remain.

https://jalopnik.com/model-3-owner-says-tesla-cheaped-out-on-quality-for-2-1848173101

However, your good fortune doesn't add up to a data-based recommendation for others to do the same. Lots of good, well-designed, well-assembled, well-serviced EVs out there instead.

You've hit the nail right on the head. As I explained above, the cars themselves are cool but they are greatly overshadowed by how bad the customer service, quality control, and service experience is.

It's going to be really interesting over the next couple of years to see how Tesla is going to handle all of these cars when something goes wrong. They don't have nearly enough service centers.

 

[HotIce]

To answer the question in the original post, place an order because you want the car. I really can't think of any other reason why you would place an order for the Ocean. The prices of competitors have increased $20,000+ and I highly doubt we'll see that significant of a price increase. Fisker locks in the inventory pricing for supply chain items well in advance and it looks like they've locked in 40,000 orders worth of inventory. At least Fisker has come out and told the public that there might be a price increase after the first 40,000 orders and not pulling a Rivian and just increasing prices willy nilly.

The Model Y Long Range today is $16,000 more expensive than it was in Dec. 2020. The Rivian R1T raised prices $10,000 recently. GM raised the price of the Hummer EV by $6,000. If you're okay with other manufactures raising their prices but not okay with Fisker raising prices, that's just hypocritical.

 

[Misanoblue]

One of Fisker's competitive advantages is that it provides great value for money. Even as they increase prices, I would expect them to continue undercutting competitors. Look at the recent Tesla price increases. The Model Y LR is now significantly more expensive than the Extreme after accounting for the Tax credit.

 

[Alley Oop]

I was shopping a BMW i4. My nearest dealer wanted a $5,000 deposit and $8,000 markup (euphemistically called addendum). One appeal of buying a new Ocean is avoiding the dealer nonsense of so many other cars listed above. Buying any EV today is a bit of a gamble. But if the reliability is solid, I think the Ocean could become one of the best all-around EVs ever made. And let me add that I’m frankly tired of hearing the “vaporware” comment, which implies that the product is phoney, late, or will never be released. That’s just trolling. The manufacturing contracts have been signed, and the vehicle is in the final validation stage. A lot of work has to happen before that. So unless Henrik fails to deliver, those drive-by insults are the real vaporware.

 

[HotIce]

I was shopping a BMW i4. My nearest dealer wanted a $5,000 deposit and $8,000 markup (euphemistically called addendum). One appeal of buying a new Ocean is avoiding the dealer nonsense of so many other cars listed above. Buying any EV today is a bit of a gamble. But if the reliability is solid, I think the Ocean could become one of the best all-around EVs ever made. And let me add that I’m frankly tired of hearing the “vaporware” comment, which implies that the product is phoney, late, or will never be released. That’s just trolling. The manufacturing contracts have been signed, and the vehicle is in the final validation stage. A lot of work has to happen before that. So unless Henrik fails to deliver, those drive-by insults are the real vaporware.

Well said. The people that say it's "vaporware" also like to bring up how Fisker failed and how this venture will have the same result.

You know what's vaporware at the moment? A Tesla with full self-driving abilities.

 

[Alley Oop]

It wouldn't hurt if Elon just shut up for two seconds either.

Wow, I’d assumed the Tesla fit and finish had improved. I test drove a Y and liked it. And I appreciate the efficiency they’ve achieved.

In terms of leadership, I like that Henrik is a straight shooter. I could never see him outright lying and claiming that he removed the passenger lumbar because the vehicle data told him people weren’t using it. How dumb does Elon think people are?

 

[HotIce]

Wow, I’d assumed the Tesla fit and finish had improved. I test drove a Y and liked it. And I appreciate the efficiency they’ve achieved.

In terms of leadership, I like that Henrik is a straight shooter. I could never see him outright lying and claiming that he removed the passenger lumbar because the vehicle data told him people weren’t using it. How dumb does Elon think people are?

Fit and finish is pretty much the same. They've made some interior tweaks that has improved the feel of the interior. QC is still absolute garbage. Elon also said they removed the mobile charger because nobody used it. Now you have to buy it for $200 and people are drinking it right up.

 

[Alley Oop]

You know what's vaporware at the moment? A Tesla with full self-driving abilities.

There was a TV news magazine piece about that recently. Seems that it’s been two months away for years now. I haven’t really paid attention, because I don’t care much for self-driving—I like driving and intuitively don’t fully trust my life to a computer just yet. I like ambitious goals and am not surprised that it’s not ready for prime time. Self-driving has to be a near impossible feat. But it seems as if he’s really fixated on a future vision of cars doing all the driving and over-sold it.

 

[Alley Oop]

Now you have to buy it for $200 and people are drinking it right up.

That tweeting machine ain’t gonna pay for itself.

I always thought of that mobile charger as essential equipment. I‘m not the only one who’d use it as my daily charging cord. Can’t help but feel a bit squeezed as a customer.